Endwalker's story had me, but lost me. Ethical issues especially (spoilers)

[Katie_Kitty]

I don't really understand what the issue is. It sounds to me like you just want to erase the present day by saving the ancient world. Sorry, we can't do that. There are people in the present-day sundered world we need to come back to.

[Rosenstrauch]

I don't really understand what the issue is. It sounds to me like you just want to erase the present day by saving the ancient world. Sorry, we can't do that. There are people in the present-day sundered world we need to come back to.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../sidestory_08/

No matter what we do in the past—including stopping the Final Days from ever happening—the present day we came from will continue to exist.

[Cleretic]

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../sidestory_08/

No matter what we do in the past—including stopping the Final Days from ever happening—the present day we came from will continue to exist.

Except that, unlike with G'raha's world where things were quiet and in a position to rebuild when he left it, we left our world hanging during The Literal Apocalypse while we were supposed to be out getting information. If we change the future and go 'nah, actually I want to stay with the atomic supermen in the past', then the timeline we came from does continue to exist... but not for long, as it's only a matter of time until it's eaten by the End of Days.

The difference between what G'raha did and what the OP seemed to want to do is that G'raha was acting selflessly to save the world from disaster, since his world was burnt out and stagnant (which to a degree is good, because it means it's not actively getting worse). Meanwhile the OP just wants to selfishly choose to abandon the world that needs them. And that's terrible hero etiquette.

[Rosenstrauch]

Except that, unlike with G'raha's world where things were quiet and in a position to rebuild when he left it, we left our world hanging during The Literal Apocalypse while we were supposed to be out getting information. If we change the future and go 'nah, actually I want to stay with the atomic supermen in the past', then the timeline we came from does continue to exist... but not for long, as it's only a matter of time until it's eaten by the End of Days.

To be fair, Elpis is a pretty chill place to hang out. And one of the Ancients flirted with my WoL—which, well...

But yeah, actually refusing to go back to your own timeline and use what you've learned from the past to save it would be the dickest of dick moves.

[Veloran]

Now, this is utter bollocks. But every single thing about time travel is utter bollocks. If you're willing to suspend your disbelief to accept everything up to that point, what makes that last bit unacceptable? It's built entirely on things the writers have already established, and in no way contradicts them.

That was quite a long post just to conclude with "it's dumb anyway, just accept it." But no, I won't, because the story never bothers to establish any internal logic suggesting a single derivatively-branching connected timeline, nor that the two are connected on the same branch, rather than, say, the concept of wholly parallel worlds. Your explanation is primarily your own headcanon and personal interpretation of how it works, for which I see limited - If any - evidence for within the narrative itself.

It's easy to say "time travel is bollocks", but the issue isn't with the time travel at all, it's with the writers not taking care to develop how these concepts function within the world.

[Rosenstrauch]

That was quite a long post just to conclude with "it's dumb anyway, just accept it.".

Hey, remember that thread about arguing in bad faith? Lesson learned: This is exactly why it exists.

[Lauront]

That was quite a long post just to conclude with "it's dumb anyway, just accept it." But no, I won't, because the story never bothers to establish any internal logic suggesting a single derivatively-branching connected timeline, nor that the two are connected on the same branch, rather than, say, the concept of wholly parallel worlds. Your explanation is primarily your own headcanon and personal interpretation of how it works, for which I see limited - If any - evidence for within the narrative itself.

It's easy to say "time travel is bollocks", but the issue isn't with the time travel at all, it's with the writers not taking care to develop how these concepts function within the world.

Also, just because they could layer more time travel on top of the time travel, it doesn't mean they had to - the way it's written now has left a lot of people confused, and in the end, given that they employed that plot device, we're given no clear understanding of how it's all meant to function. Possibly another casualty of trying to squash 6.0 and 7.0 into one story and resolve it ASAP while getting all the main actors in the story to reconcile. They can come back to address it later, via short stories or whatever (depending on how open they want to leave their options for future plots... might be beneficial in their view to stay silent on it), but IMO it's unfortunate that they even have to given that 6.0 was meant to conclude the current arc and yet it did so in such a messy way.

[Iscah]

Possibly another casualty of trying to squash 6.0 and 7.0 into one story

Where is this idea coming from? It's the first I've heard of it.

And even if you actually mean having the big finale in 6.0 instead of 6.3, that doesn't mean they're trying to squeeze some previously planned-for 6.1-.3 plot into 6.0, it just means they wrote a story that could wrap up in 6.0.

On a side note I think people have placed too much emphasis on them saying "6.0 is the end and we're not dragging it out". 6.X can still be wrapping up loose threads and aftermath. The start of "Season 2" as people like to call it woul logically start with a new full expansion to provide a solid starting point for new players to jump to.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Where is this idea coming from? It's the first I've heard of it.

And even if you actually mean having the big finale in 6.0 instead of 6.3, that doesn't mean they're trying to squeeze some previously planned-for 6.1-.3 plot into 6.0, it just means they wrote a story that could wrap up in 6.0.

On a side note I think people have placed too much emphasis on them saying "6.0 is the end and we're not dragging it out". 6.X can still be wrapping up loose threads and aftermath. The start of "Season 2" as people like to call it woul logically start with a new full expansion to provide a solid starting point for new players to jump to.

I don’t have the proper source because it was such a long time ago and trying to skim through the interviews is just…ew so take it with the biggest grain of salt you’d like, but it was mentioned awhile back that they had intended for 7.0 to be the end of the hydaelyn and zodiark arc and not 6.0, however due to some issue i don’t actually recall what it was, it was sized down to ending in 6.0.

Edit:Heres a quote-
It’s really dense in volume so I’m having doubts on whether I can finish them and meet the schedule deadline, so I’m working hard here to make sure it’s delivered on time. (laughs)

We can actually make it work if we wanted to actually prolong the story of Hydaelyn-Zodiark arc, and there’s definitely a lot more places to explore in Eorzea, the world players first started their journey.

I personally am fine with ending the story at around patch 7.0 or 8.0, but I believe the decision to end the story precisely at this timing must have brought out the sense of speed as well, and I hope that, with this decision, it will allow us to able to properly grasp on what what kind of story “FFXIV” we can provide to our players, considering the fact that this expansion will be released in 2021.
so I think that's even clearer

[Cleretic]

I still think that, as much as I can generally see how Endwalker could be essentially 'two expansions crammed into one', I do think it's better that we got what we got. There's no part of Endwalker that isn't the end of it that would work as a '6.0 act break'. Especially when you consider that a traditional expansion breakdown would've needed to fit in the patch cycle, and there's definitely no part of what we got that would've been comfortable as 'what we do for a couple years until the next expansion'.