Healers please

[ElciaDeiLinus]

So you just try to eat every vuln stack that exists and then blame the healer? That's what you're saying right now when you respond like that.

You quoted a two sentence quote, where I said 'letting the team wipe WHEN YOU COULD PREVENT IT BY HEALING'- if you have every vuln stack, are you going to be able to prevent that person from dying as a healer? No, which clearly isn't the situation I was speaking of.

How does 'someone who can be saved by healing, but the healer is spamming dps and lets them die' get turned into 'so you think healers should heal people who can't be saved by healing?'

Don't go 'what you're saying right now' then say the opposite of what I said, just so you can argue against something that you've made up because that's the only way you can think of something to say. At no point am I saying you should stand in vuln abilities, at no point am I saying healers should be blamed for people who can't survive anything due to vuln stacks.

"Letting the team wipe when you could prevent it by healing is... good team play?" Is what I asked, and you quoted.

So I'm going to take from your response that you do genuinely feel that if a healer is able to save a team, prevent a wipe by healing- they should let the team wipe because that is better team play? Because that is what you are saying right now when you respond like that.

[OranKells]

that's not letting the party wipe;

That's letting the one person, who already missed a couple mechanics and has some vuln stacks, die. That tbh, may not survive anyway even at 100% hp.
It's a cost benefit analysis and sometimes its easier to just raise them afterwards.

No amount of esuna or cures will get over vuln stacks and bad play.

and as a good team player I may throw them an extra ogcd if its up, and might try.

but its two way street and its also on them to learn the fight and not get hit by avoidable damage like that.

looking at the whole picture, it is good team play yes.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Except that's not what is happening with new players- who come into the game, get yelled at for healing in dungeons, get told by content creators to only heal at low health... then get into groups and are spamming damage spells as the group wipes over and over.

Letting people die when you can stop them from dying is bad play as a healer- you're talking about trying to fix bad play while you're encouraging people to play badly. When healers let people die- either intentionally like you, or accidently because they're tunnelling damage instead of healing or think that it's fine to not heal until low health and someone dies- sometimes they can recover, but sometimes they don't and you end up with a wipe or it spirals into deaths and rezzing and the boss takes 3x longer than it would have.

Yes, obviously if you get hit by mechanics you should learn... but from the other hand- if you're a RDM or SMN and you see a healer die to vuln stacks, are you going to be like 'well if I rez him he'll never learn! it's a two way street!', I hope not but maybe you would.

Whole picture- if the healer is intentionally letting people die that he could save that's atrocious teamplay, period.

[LittleImp]

Except that's not what is happening with new players- who come into the game, get yelled at for healing in dungeons, get told by content creators to only heal at low health... then get into groups and are spamming damage spells as the group wipes over and over.

This doesn't really happen, though. I've got hundreds of hours in this game at this point, and can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a healer tunnel hard enough dpsing to cause a wipe in that entire time.

How does something that happens in probably less than 1% of parties justify encouraging people to play badly always? Even if you somehow caused a wipe in 1/5 runs, the amount of time you shave off the rest of the runs by dpsing would more than make up for the 1-2 minutes wasted on the wipe.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

This doesn't really happen, though. I've got hundreds of hours in this game at this point, and can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a healer tunnel hard enough dpsing to cause a wipe in that entire time.

How does something that happens in probably less than 1% of parties justify encouraging people to play badly always? Even if you somehow caused a wipe in 1/5 runs, the amount of time you shave off the rest of the runs by dpsing would more than make up for the 1-2 minutes wasted on the wipe.

Then it doesn't effect you- this again, isn't about people who are able to balance healing and dps, that wasn't what the complaint was it was about healers that don't heal and just focus on dps, let people die and wipe. I don't think I see anyone here saying 'if you are able to keep people alive as a healer, and also dps, you should stop doing dps'- if there is I missed the post but I haven't seen that- and I would agree, if you're able to do both without letting the group wipe you should of course do both.

If you never encounter that, great- but if you do encounter that, is that good play? Is not healing and letting groups wipe good play as a healer? Encouraging that, and there are people here straight up saying they won't heal players even if that could save them because they'd rather dps, is encouraging really bad play.

[Packetdancer]

That's letting the one person, who already missed a couple mechanics and has some vuln stacks, die. That tbh, may not survive anyway even at 100% hp.
It's a cost benefit analysis and sometimes its easier to just raise them afterwards.

I refer to this as the "nuclear Esuna"; it costs me 2400 MP and converts any number of debuffs -- cleanseable with normal Esuna or not -- into a single Weakness or Brink of Death debuff.

I do not often employ the nuclear Esuna deliberately... but if you have 5 vuln stacks or more, I'm gonna seriously consider it.

[OranKells]

Except that is what is happening. We're not letting people die from unavoidable damage. People are dying from mechanics that cannot be simply healed through.

Those are two completely separate situations you seem to be conflating. I also don't know who these content creators are.
and healers are not excempt from this, we can't expect the other healer or the caster to be able to raise everyone but it is a team effort. Mistakes happen but the burden to correct it all is not the healers.

whole picture - if the healer is unable to save a dps who died after multiple missed mechanics and the dps expects to be carried through, that's bad gameplay, exclamation point!

Healers can and should heal and dps ok

[Banriikku]

Not sure but as a healer, atleast i am doing this, i have prio list and DPS are on this list is nr 3, tank are 2 and healer are 1. I let you die if you are not in this list on the top and the other two needs attantion or if you are in so rough shape (vuln stack man baby) that letting you die and rezz you is cheaper.

"Tunneling damage" What on earth is this ? As a healer you have AOE (1 Button) and single target (1 Button) plus a DoT (1 Button) and you have a OGCD thats it. There is nothing to tunnel here. If you are tunneling dps than, lets be honest here, you have clearly other problems and you should LEARN the healer job FIRST.
Furthermore PLEASE STOP with "all healers" or "many healers" are like that - thats just untrue.

I am not sure were you get youre healer guides and stuff because all sources i know of worth their SALT will tell you the following - READ your TOOLSTIPS and LEARN your Kit first, learn how to heal and learn the conent you are playing AFTER THAT you start minmaxing your DPS as healer.

The forum these days has a lot healer-hate -,- please stop it. The world is not Black and White and taking stuff out of context is BS and most responses here just that. OP discribeded a situation were OP just overhealing like crazy and complaint "why my co-healer not doing same ? ". Thats not a carry nor it is top notch healer gameplay. If you are not good or cant heal and DPS - thats completly fine - if somebody harasses you just report them.

[IDontPetLalas]

Not sure but as a healer, atleast i am doing this, i have prio list and DPS are on this list is nr 3, tank are 2 and healer are 1. I let you die if you are not in this list on the top and the other two needs attantion or if you are in so rough shape (vuln stack man baby) that letting you die and rezz you is cheaper.

"Tunneling damage" What on earth is this ? As a healer you have AOE (1 Button) and single target (1 Button) plus a DoT (1 Button) and you have a OGCD thats it. There is nothing to tunnel here. If you are tunneling dps than, lets be honest here, you have clearly other problems and you should LEARN the healer job FIRST.
Furthermore PLEASE STOP with "all healers" or "many healers" are like that - thats just untrue.

I am not sure were you get youre healer guides and stuff because all sources i know of worth their SALT will tell you the following - READ your TOOLSTIPS and LEARN your Kit first, learn how to heal and learn the conent you are playing AFTER THAT you start minmaxing your DPS as healer.

The forum these days has a lot healer-hate -,- please stop it. The world is not Black and White and taking stuff out of context is BS and most responses here just that. OP discribeded a situation were OP just overhealing like crazy and complaint "why my co-healer not doing same ? ". Thats not a carry nor it is top notch healer gameplay. If you are not good or cant heal and DPS - thats completly fine - if somebody harasses you just report them.

This is really well said, I would only add that DPS get bumped up or down the priority list in the party all the time (for a worst-case scenario) , depending upon whether they bring utility such as as raise as well.
If they never use it when we really need it - they get bumped down the list, same as a DPS that keep ignoring mechanics and collecting stacks.

[OranKells]

the OP seems to be about a healer thats doing a lot of dps and not healing because the other healer is healing too much and not dpsing. which is a communication breakdown.

the other healer should heal less and throw in a couple glares to force the first heal to pop the odd ogcd between thier dps, which is how nature intended it work.

And I do think you learn best by doing, failure is a great teaching tool. If you wipe once or twice getting into your groove so be it.