Concern for onboarding experience of new players

[juiceboxed]

Thanks to all the people who have responded in earnest.

I want to see the game in a better place. I might not know what the correct way to fix it is, but I would really like to be able to invite my friends and for them to stick with it, but since ARR is often a rite of passage, I can't get anyone to stick.

That said:
1. If you don't know about something that doesn't mean it therefore doesn't exist.
2. There is no reason for anybody, on a SUBSCRIPTION-BASED GAME, to have to pay for a skip or have to skip all cutscenes. If you're here, expecting a story, like everyone I introduced and unironically enjoyed the story, but felt as if you were going through a slog anyway, then there are parts of the MSQ that are superfluous or poorly delivered.
3. Less bad doesn't mean good. Any room for improvement is probably welcome to the devs.
4. I love the game. I am 90 on all DoL/DoH, have 5 90 combat jobs. I just can't get my friends to play the game because the start is a rite of passage, and it should be fun.

[Snowdove]

If only... they put in some way to skip the story you dislike reading.

I didn't say I disliked reading the story.


I said...and let me quote it for you:


I'm literally spending 10-20 minutes reading, going somewhere else, reading more, going somewhere else, reading yet more stuff, then finally going somewhere and -- oh, read more stuff. Now, finally, I get to shoot something! Oh, back to reading more stuff.


I know this is FF and this is how things are done. Lots of story. Fine. But break it up a bit more and give us something exciting to do.

[Vahlnir]

Thanks to all the people who have responded in earnest.

I want to see the game in a better place. I might not know what the correct way to fix it is, but I would really like to be able to invite my friends and for them to stick with it, but since ARR is often a rite of passage, I can't get anyone to stick.

That said:
1. If you don't know about something that doesn't mean it therefore doesn't exist.
2. There is no reason for anybody, on a SUBSCRIPTION-BASED GAME, to have to pay for a skip or have to skip all cutscenes. If you're here, expecting a story, like everyone I introduced and unironically enjoyed the story, but felt as if you were going through a slog anyway, then there are parts of the MSQ that are superfluous.
3. Less bad doesn't mean good. Any room for improvement is probably welcome to the devs.
4. I love the game. I am 90 on all DoL/DoH, have 5 90 combat jobs. I just can't get my friends to play the game because the start is a rite of passage, and it should be fun.

If they couldn't get through ARR then chances are their interest was relatively low to begin with. The game's not perfect, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the fault doesn't completely lie with the game's design here. Also, ARR and HW are free (well, usually, free trials aren't ongoing right now lol) so there's no subscription needed until the end of HW.

[juiceboxed]

If they couldn't get through ARR then chances are their interest was relatively low to begin with. The game's not perfect, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the fault doesn't completely lie with the game's design here.

I'm afraid your suspicions are unfounded. One person in particular was extremely hyped, bought up to Endwalker, was already looking at mounts, loved their first few days, then when they got to that part, it was a slog to them. (actually made this forum thread as a result of my concern with the early onboarding experience)
I bought the game for another friend, full set to work with up to Endwalker, they couldn't stand how the MSQ was delivered to them. "The story is good, but I don't like how it's delivered..."
My ex gf pissed and moaned about the MSQ in general, about it being a slog, but got to the end and very much enjoyed Titania EX and Innocence EX, when that was current.

My friends' complaints can be better summarized by Snowdove's post above, honestly.

[Vahlnir]

I'm afraid your suspicions are unfounded. One person in particular was extremely hyped, bought up to Endwalker, was already looking at mounts, loved their first few days, then when they got to that part, it was a slog to them. (actually made this forum thread as a result of my concern with the early onboarding experience)
I bought the game for another friend, full set to work with up to Endwalker, they couldn't stand how the MSQ was delivered to them. "The story is good, but I don't like how it's delivered..."
My ex gf pissed and moaned about the MSQ in general, about it being a slog, but got to the end and very much enjoyed Titania EX and Innocence EX, when that was current.

ARR sets up the story for the rest of the game so far. It's a slog, sure, and that is not something I will ever deny. But they also need to understand what type of game this is. If they won't push forward knowing that the grass is greener on the other side...well...I feel that my suspicions aren't unfounded at all.

[Kes13a]

I didn't say I disliked reading the story.


I said...and let me quote it for you:


I'm literally spending 10-20 minutes reading, going somewhere else, reading more, going somewhere else, reading yet more stuff, then finally going somewhere and -- oh, read more stuff. Now, finally, I get to shoot something! Oh, back to reading more stuff.


I know this is FF and this is how things are done. Lots of story. Fine. But break it up a bit more and give us something exciting to do.

and I said, if you read it, skip it and read when you have time.

that way you can read the whole thing, or even parts of it at your leisure. can have nothing but unending excitement.

[juiceboxed]

I want to check to see if we're on the same page, because you're civil and I want to talk to you.
My argument is: the problem is that in order to play the multiplayer aspect of this MMO as was intended on its creation, you need to play ~200 hours of single player story. Certain features are unlocked as you progress, but the vast majority of the features are gated by a timed requirement which is only able to be bypassed by ruining all of the story experience you would receive at the end of it.
My friends wants to get immersed, but the delivery can be so sloggish at times when they are coming in, that they would literally rather quit.
Have you played through the story recently? I have, it was 50% slog, not because of the content of it, but because of delivery. I literally think the story is amazing. The delivery, not so much.
We all know what type of game it is. it's a story game, and I'm criticizing the delivery. It's the time old argument of "it gets better after 1000 hours". How are they supposed to take that, or accept that, for the matter? It's insane to expect anybody to onboard for 200 hours, and for it not to hook them the entire time. There has to be a better way.
Again, I repeat that I just want the game to be better, and bringing it up so that maybe the way onboarding is handled can be improved. I don't know if it can be improved, but I hope it probably can.

[Nitelancer]

I agree. Dungeon bosses should be more challenging. Its make the new player experience more engaging and memorable. A good game needs highs and lows. Leveling is all lows in terms of gameplay because there is almost no risk of failure. I think one thing that could help is to scale everyone down to min ilvl if a player in the group has not completed the dungeon before. This way its a bit more challenging the first time around, making it more fun for new players, while allowing subsequent runs to be easy. And if its all vets in a group from the roulette, they won't get annoyed because the dungeon will be completed quick and easy.

[Vahlnir]

My argument is: the problem is that in order to play the multiplayer aspect of this MMO as was intended on its creation, you need to play ~200 hours of single player story. Certain features are unlocked as you progress, but the vast majority of the features are gated by a timed requirement which is only able to be bypassed by ruining all of the story experience you would receive at the end of it.

There are multiplayer aspects all along the way. They just aren't to your liking. Just by being out in the world or in a main city, you are playing with others. Then there are dungeons and trials, which are present from beginning to end. And at every level cap there is harder content that can be done synced (even down to the minimum item level) if people want to be challenged. This can also be done with a lot of trials and such. And at max level there will be even more content to offer given enough time. As you progress through the story you are given the opportunity to unlock all of these things. That is literally playing the game as it is intended, multiplayer included. Again, it's just not to your liking or seemingly to the liking of those you are acquainted with. The options are there. It is all about how you utilize them. You just don't seem to grasp that this game was not designed to be rushed by default, though there are some who do. Whether you like how the story is being told or not, that is how it is being told. That is how it has always been told, and that will likely continue. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Still, I feel that ARR could use a bit of touching up. Not arguing that at all. But what you seem to be asking for is an overhaul of how the game works, and that I can't agree with. If it is a challenge you seek, there are options available. But outside of Savage, Extreme and Ultimate you aren't going to be challenged all that much. That's just how it is, and I doubt it will ever change. This game has continued to thrive off of being a pretty chill experience.

[van_arn]

There are multiplayer aspects all along the way. They just aren't to your liking. Just by being out in the world or in a main city, you are playing with others. Then there are dungeons and trials, which are present from beginning to end. And at every level cap there is harder content that can be done synced (even down to the minimum item level) if people want to be challenged. This can also be done with a lot of trials and such. And at max level there will be even more content to offer given enough time. As you progress through the story you are given the opportunity to unlock all of these things. That is literally playing the game as it is intended, multiplayer included. Again, it's just not to your liking or seemingly to the liking of those you are acquainted with. The options are there. It is all about how you utilize them. You just don't seem to grasp that this game was not designed to be rushed by default, though there are some who do. Whether you like how the story is being told or not, that is how it is being told. That is how it has always been told, and that will likely continue. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Still, I feel that ARR could use a bit of touching up. Not arguing that at all. But what you seem to be asking for is an overhaul of how the game works, and that I can't agree with. If it is a challenge you seek, there are options available. But outside of Savage, Extreme and Ultimate you aren't going to be challenged all that much. That's just how it is, and I doubt it will ever change. This game has continued to thrive off of being a pretty chill experience.

I don't agree with the dungeons needing to be "hard," but they certainly do need to be "easy." They have no difficulty as it stands, and *that* is the overhaul that needs to be UNdone.

I want Stone Vigil to be an easy dungeon again, rather than brainless. The powercreep over the years has completely neutered any character from any of the dungeons up to the gates of Stormblood (vault and b-wall arguable exceptions, but not in their entirety), and that needs to be undone.

Again, this isn't a matter of wanting dungeons to be "hard." It's not even a matter of wanting them to be "harder." They're not even on the spectrum of difficulty, an inevitable clear no matter what the players do or do not contribute. Free.

If that's working as intended, that's a bad intent-- taking the game out of the game. Players shouldn't need to wait until the base game ends after a couple dozen to several dozen hours to be able to access something that registers on the spectrum; they should seek out challenges that the game has at least partially prepared them for. As it stands, free content has nothing to teach.

A prime example of how badly the game has been neutered: Hests. They can't even teach what they're intended to teach anymore. They are absolutely worthless. Queue up and you'll find it's more worthwhile to just ignore the intended mechanics and power through the fight.