Our Azem - A secret plan? (Slight EW Spoilers)

[Shookbeast]

I can't agree with this more! Before they introduced Meteion, I was 1000% positive the keening was Lavos / Jenova / Planet Parasite within the star and our Azem had gone down to deal with the problem head on (seal it / weaken it / put it to sleep / w/e). The entire story seemed to heavily imply this was why Azem left. Azem is a traveler that solves problems through friendship / companions. It was obviously pointing to their final trial. However, with Endwalker, I'm definitely taking a second look at this. Since there was no issue within the star (it's explicitly said the sound didn't come from within but outside in Endwalker which was a super retcon that they could of course retcon again), where was our Azem at this point? I truly hope there is an alternative way to help the unsundered world, but it very much seems like due to the dialogue of Emet / rest of the ancient trio, it's done.

They tried and failed to save their world. We tried and succeeded thanks to Venat and well ourselves playing a 12,000yr long game. They're going to the aetherial sea and we're to continue our journey. I'm positive the XIV team won't let this plot point rot, but it had me pretty sad that I'm still left wondering with this being the final expansion for this 10yr saga.

Yeah, I too hope we learn more about Azem. I wouldn’t worry too much about this being “the last” part of the story. I think the creators might be using a bit of an exaggeration in their wording. Certainly stories are wrapping up - but there’s definitely more to explore and I doubt they’re leaving it alone.

I‘ll change my tune though if we find out Azem truly does have something to do with the 12 (along with maybe Azem’s Scion-parallel friends). We may wind up wrapping that part of the story then.

I have a feeling Azem is long-game story telling though. I’d buy the theory that we’re Azem, and the true final expansion of the game is about us ensuring our friends’ futures, while securing that past with a stable time loop.

[Alleo]

I’m a little confused on this notion people keep bringing up about the sundering being a copy/past job. Is there any lore pointing to this idea that somehow the sundering created 14 identical versions of each person sundered? That the sundering made 14 identical planets with copies of all the people sundered on each one? I haven’t read anything stating this was the case.

Amaurot and Anyder are on the first including the concept that the Ancients created. That would not have happened if the First was created completely new. Emet shows us the sundering by making a copy of Ryne. Also the shards of the sundered people exist on these planets. See Ardbert who was also a shard of Azem. And see all those callback NPCs that even nearly look identical to the source version.

Varis only knows what Elidibus told him. He saw his own race being inferior by not being able to cast magic and probably hoped that after the rejoinings he and his people would be whole again thus able to fight the Ascians. All of course under the banner of Garlemald. That the Ascians basically planned to take out the empire too and that the rest of the surviving whole people on the source would be sacrificed to get the souls in Zodiark back was probably not known to him.

Also we dont really know when the new races sprung up. Seeing how Meteion and her sisters were created it could very well be that the races were all creations by the Ancients before the sundering that got souls. After the Final Days they could have been recreated by Zodiark in the second sacrifice and later then be the races were any new sentient/sapient soul was reborn into including Amaurotines (and lets not forget, all the souls of Ancient ones that perished in the Final Days before it reached Amaurotine)

We sadly really have no idea how it happened after the sundering. All we know are some small hints ingame that IMO paints the picture that everyone was basically just splitt including the planets. Maybe after the sundering the Ancients bodies just became smaller and thus the Hyur race was born.

[Mansion]

We still have no idea why the Sound itself was coming from inside the planet.

Wait. Sorry I'm off topic but about this; I understood Meteion was manipulating both ether and dynamis, so that in the end the "Sound" was just that, Meteion triggering things from afar, all under a (heavy-handed) metaphor about sound, song and singing. Her power would cause the disasters on the planet and mutate people into monsters. And the "sound from the planet" was just a poetic way of describing it for people that didn't know what caused it.
Did I invent that? I don't feel they actually left the sound from the earth unresolved for something coming up, but I might have read a bit too deep (and I was very tired during the Elpis part)

[Shookbeast]

Amaurot and Anyder are on the first including the concept that the Ancients created. That would not have happened if the First was created completely new. Emet shows us the sundering by making a copy of Ryne. Also the shards of the sundered people exist on these planets. See Ardbert who was also a shard of Azem. And see all those callback NPCs that even nearly look identical to the source version... (snipped for space)

This is beginning to make sense to me.

I think we can say with relative safety that if you looked at each of the 14 sundered planets, one second after the Sundering took place, then you’d see 14 identical planets - each with an identical Azem on it. The geography, cities, roads, and potted plants are all identical. Every blade of grass too.

After that second though - things each began to diverge.

On the First, that Azem might’ve dusted themself off, and gone on to begin solving whatever task they were set upon.

Meanwhile on the Second, Azem is almost immediately crushed by a toppling building, and that soul-shard is sent back to the livestream.

On the Third - Azem starts a punk rock band.

And so on.

Eventually all Azems die. (Maybe. I would believe we have at least one Azem left over somewhere). The dead Azems get reincarnated as new people, with no memory of being Azems. This happens for everyone on every sundered planet. Eventually the original cities and libraries get destroyed or sink into the sea. New civilizations rise and fall. New races evolve. Spriggans rule for a brief, very dark period of time. Eventually we get to current day.

(“Current day” is tricky because apparently time has a loose relationship between each reflection. One planet may have existed for 1000 years post-sundering, while on another it’s only been a few minutes since the sundering.)

What I find fascinating about this - is that we had Emet bopping from reflection to reflection. He got to meet 14 versions of his friend Azem - and who knows what transpired…

[Iscah]

(“Current day” is tricky because apparently time has a loose relationship between each reflection. One planet may have existed for 1000 years post-sundering, while on another it’s only been a few minutes since the sundering.)

There's still a definite shared "current day" from shard to shard even if the lengths of time since the Sundering differ.

As far as we've been made aware, at least, time is still moving forward on each shard and if you, say, travel from Source to First and back again you are always only in one place across all the shards at any given time, and you'll return to the Source later than you left it.

[Anvaire]

There's still a definite shared "current day" from shard to shard even if the lengths of time since the Sundering differ.

As far as we've been made aware, at least, time is still moving forward on each shard and if you, say, travel from Source to First and back again you are always only in one place across all the shards at any given time, and you'll return to the Source later than you left it.

This isnt constant though, Exarch boy mentions this in early shadowbringers that the timezones are aligned but not usually so (unless im misremembering)

[Rannie]

This isnt constant though, Exarch boy mentions this in early shadowbringers that the timezones are aligned but not usually so (unless im misremembering)

He said that the passage of time normally differs on the source and the first. Sometimes going faster sometimes going slower and that at the beginning of SHB when we are pulled there the passage of time aligned to be almost near synchronis between the two. Case in fact as well while we were on the first time passed on the source much slower. Slow enough that by Tataru's reckoning we came back earlier than she thought we would at the end of base SHB.

Not to mention the time between our battle with Ardbert and Co and them going back to the first and then when we finally do end up going there 100 years had passed.

[Denishia]

What I find fascinating about this - is that we had Emet bopping from reflection to reflection. He got to meet 14 versions of his friend Azem - and who knows what transpired…

This was one of the many reasons why I wanted to strangle Emet when he was doing his speech about the Sundering and how awful that suddenly there were fourteen copies of the world and everyone on it. Yes, the loss of memory of your friends is a tragedy- but they are alive still, the world is alive and not in a backwards-facing escalated sacrifice to Zodiark, and most of all, not only do you have one chance to remake your friendships, you have fourteen. Fourteen chances to screw up- or fourteen chances to have a life. He could have been shard-hoping to hang out with multiple versions of a life- running multiple alts on a game to use the metaphor- but understandably he wants that old deleted (and corrupted) save file where the godmode was unlocked.

[Iscah]

This isnt constant though, Exarch boy mentions this in early shadowbringers that the timezones are aligned but not usually so (unless im misremembering)

The speed of time is different and the "X years since the Sundering" date will vary, but when you teleport from Source to First you are moving from "in the Source right now" to "in the First right now". There are corresponding points in time across each shard, moving forward at whatever speed they're moving.

[Shookbeast]

This was one of the many reasons why I wanted to strangle Emet when he was doing his speech about the Sundering and how awful that suddenly there were fourteen copies of the world and everyone on it. Yes, the loss of memory of your friends is a tragedy- but they are alive still, the world is alive and not in a backwards-facing escalated sacrifice to Zodiark, and most of all, not only do you have one chance to remake your friendships, you have fourteen. Fourteen chances to screw up- or fourteen chances to have a life. He could have been shard-hoping to hang out with multiple versions of a life- running multiple alts on a game to use the metaphor- but understandably he wants that old deleted (and corrupted) save file where the godmode was unlocked.

I agree on some levels - but if everyone’s memory is wiped (or muddled) but they do realize they’ve lost their powers of creation - I could see a great many of Emet’s friends being frightened, sad, or in some cases - turn nasty.

I wouldn’t put it past the writers to have an evil Azem - who was bummed out about losing their powers. Facing such a situation, I could see Emet being very upset.

OR, Emet planet hopped, and tried to fix everything for each planet, working with the 14 Azems - until the Azems all died of natural causes - growing old and feeble alongside the near immortal Emet. The plans that Emet and the Azems put together all eventually fell apart. The beings of the 14 descended into war and chaos - and Emet began to plot an entirely new game plan - in the absence of his friend’s companionship.

Emet might be justifiably upset - but I don’t condone his actions.