Quote Originally Posted by Ransu View Post
Uh, what? DPS buffs that apply to the entire raid are absolutely utilities.
let me rephrase it just so we don't argue on the meaning of words.

buffs outside of dps=those have a value for the group which is hard to measure in exact numbers, it is fair to argue that classes that offer those compared to those that don't should be penalized in their dps, the question is "what is a reasonable amount".

buffs that effectively do nothing but dps=these allready give us exact numbers, penalizing classes that offer those compared to those that don't by a higher value than what these buffs actually offer is stupid, if buffing the group by 1500 dps gets penalized by a personal 1600 dps loss than "buffing the group" is not only actively useless but a detriment.

because one has a definite value (dps buffs) whereas putting a dps value on others (shields, regens, movement buffs, dispells...) is subjective it makes no sense to act like both are the same, they are not, and when discussed that should be kept in mind.

no the point i take issue with is this, given that perfect balance at all levels is impossible and buff classes generally have a higher dps drop the further down they go than if having a dps buff (again, purely dps buff here) is to be penalized there are 3 ways this can go.

a) you penalize the class for clearly less than it buffs, the result is the buffer allways being stronger.
b) you penalize the class for clearly more than it buffs, the result is the buffer allways being weaker.
c) you penalize the class on a level thats somewhat less than it buffs at the highest level while punishing it for more than the value of its buff the lower you go, leading to a situation where the buff is usefull at the top end but in exchange a detriment the lower you go.

c) leaves us with a situation where "whats best" actually changes depending on group composition aswell as skill level. version a) and b) on the other hand just let one side allways be stronger, it doesn't matter which of those extremes, both are equally bad by themselves.