So you're telling me..

[Kazimere]

Yeah true, sure feels bad when players get rewarded for mediocre performance, almost like it doesnt matter that much if you screw up, seems like a pretty flawed design choice tbh, a class shouldnt arbitrarily turn on easy mode for a majority of players.

Glad we agree its not ideal

And yeah the ideal fix would be adding depth instead of lowering output, but changes like that probably arent happening in the middle of an expansion.

I think you're conflating reaper not having depth with people who are pumping 95+ as being mediocre. Are least that's the way it's coming across. Having said that, I'd argue there is about as much depth to Reaper as there is to Samurai. There really isn't much to that job. Keep up your DoT and throw out as many midare as possible. Use Ogi in the 2 minute burn windows. Bout it. In a nut shell, Reaper is keep up DD, don't over cap resources, use Gluttony as close to CD as possible, have enough shroud to get two Communio under the two minute window. Three if you want to be a try hard when you're potting. In between, Samurai has a pretty fixed filler rotation. Reaper does not. That makes Reaper more flexible, but that doesn't mean Samurai has that much more depth. It is subjective.

To your second point. You say that like I never said I didn't want more depth to Reaper. I do, as I have stated before. I also would like it to be punished more for rotational mistakes, as I said before.

You're right, I highly doubt they will add anymore depth to it until 7.0. That doesn't mean its numbers should suffer until then. Additionally, a job's dps is not determined by how easy/hard or how much depth/lack of it has. That is something the community tries to implement standards on.

[Acece]

I do agree with you that how easy or hard a job is should not be a factor in balance, it's the main reason why whm had been so bad throughout the history of the game cause it's simple to a detrimental degree. I don't mind reaper being in line with monk but Sam should still be top dps with BLM. mantra and arcane crest even in it's nerfed state is still a strong CD especially in prog. I do feel kind of bad not going reaper for my static even if it's like a 1-2% difference, hopefully no 1% wipes lol.
Ps: you oversimplified sam's rotation to an extreme. it's skill ceiling is still as high as shb its just it's floor has gone down significantly which is great honestly.

[Navnav]

Nothing should be top or bottom. That creates a boring as hell game, give other jobs time to shine, nothing should be a guarentee. I don't know why the uproar in a game so well balanced. I mean - once again - you clear anything with any job. A DPS composition of DNC, SMN, DRG and NIN can clear any fight in the game currently, so why the outrage?

It gets even more crazy when you think about the fact that third party tools are prohibited here, yet that is the sole reason for the majority of the forum posts on here. You all use third party tools and go to the website that tool submits its data and then come to forums to whine. If i was square I would start banning posters that even mention anything. Stop this nonsense and accept things for how they are and enjoy the blasted game.

[Misutoraru]

I do agree with you that how easy or hard a job is should not be a factor in balance, it's the main reason why whm had been so bad throughout the history of the game cause it's simple to a detrimental degree. I don't mind reaper being in line with monk but Sam should still be top dps with BLM. mantra and arcane crest even in it's nerfed state is still a strong CD especially in prog. I do feel kind of bad not going reaper for my static even if it's like a 1-2% difference, hopefully no 1% wipes lol.
Ps: you oversimplified sam's rotation to an extreme. it's skill ceiling is still as high as shb its just it's floor has gone down significantly which is great honestly.

Agree with difficulty should not be a consideration in balance. It is up to the player to perform the best for the job they chosen.
Job with no raid buff should be on top like SAM BLM

Job with raid buff should be in same segment with very same difference depend on how powerful the raid buff, e.g. dmg buff potency, dmg buff>healing or rez

Job with full uptime should be slightly below melee. So at the end Range job would have similar dps as melee in most fight within their own segment

[Scuoll]

I think you're conflating reaper not having depth with people who are pumping 95+ as being mediocre. Are least that's the way it's coming across. Having said that, I'd argue there is about as much depth to Reaper as there is to Samurai. There really isn't much to that job. Keep up your DoT and throw out as many midare as possible. Use Ogi in the 2 minute burn windows. Bout it. In a nut shell, Reaper is keep up DD, don't over cap resources, use Gluttony as close to CD as possible, have enough shroud to get two Communio under the two minute window. Three if you want to be a try hard when you're potting. In between, Samurai has a pretty fixed filler rotation. Reaper does not. That makes Reaper more flexible, but that doesn't mean Samurai has that much more depth. It is subjective.

You're right, I highly doubt they will add anymore depth to it until 7.0. That doesn't mean its numbers should suffer until then. Additionally, a job's dps is not determined by how easy/hard or how much depth/lack of it has. That is something the community tries to implement standards on.

Im kinda confused by your statement, i didnt mean people who parse 95+ are mediocre, they are legit the top 5% so it wouldnt make sense lol.

What i meant is, as most ppl including you have said, is that reaper performs a lot better compared to other classes at lower skill levels, and that mediocre players of that job are rewarded a lot more than mediocre players of other classes.
I wont get into the specifics of the sam/rpr comparison too much, but i think you skipped over a really big thing that sets them apart difficulty wise, being that sam plays a lot faster, lower gcd and more ogcds to press, while reaper has the lowest cpm of all the melee and very few ogcds to press, burst window is kinda long and busy, but outside of it since you mostly just pool resources you just dont do that much, which is also the main thing i dislike about rpr playstyle wise but thats another argument, needing to press less buttons is a lot easier since it affords you a lot more time to think.

Also i think its pretty clear square enix doesnt balance around it so whatever, but reaper really does not look balanced damage wise if you sort by lower percentiles, which is what i meant with the class being easy mode for majority of players.

I dont know if they look at job representation for high end groups in savage, but i looked through a few streams and it seems like reaper, red mage and bard all locked in for basically every team, with the 4th slot being the only flex one where you see some variety, where i have seen mainly monk/sam but also drg and blm. I really dont know if this is normal, first race i am around for, but id say its pretty bad to have so many of the dps slots with a clear cut better class, especially for ranged and caster, at least most other melees seem to be good enough for the last slot.

[Ransu]

RPR so far is for savage prog groups is basically mandatory, that's how good they are right now with both dps and utility. Red mage is always in a prog group because of easy rez access. None of the prog groups seem to care about NIN TA attack anymore and the flex slot seems to be basically either mnk or sam. I think I only saw Happy's group with a DRG.

[Kazimere]

RPR so far is for savage prog groups is basically mandatory, that's how good they are right now with both dps and utility. Red mage is always in a prog group because of easy rez access. None of the prog groups seem to care about NIN TA attack anymore and the flex slot seems to be basically either mnk or sam. I think I only saw Happy's group with a DRG.

Reaper is popular. Then again, so is Sage. It's not blowing Samurai out of the water though. 1.5% above Samurai in rDPS. 1.5%. 3% behind in aDPS. Seems pretty balanced to me. Additionally, monk is the top dog. Not reaper.

[ZiraZ]

Reaper is popular. Then again, so is Sage. It's not blowing Samurai out of the water though. 1.5% above Samurai in rDPS. 1.5%. 3% behind in aDPS. Seems pretty balanced to me. Additionally, monk is the top dog. Not reaper.

lol

well one of these days you will say something that is not a complete lie, just a matter of time

[Scuoll]

Reaper is popular.

I mean true, but there's popular and there's "basically impossible to find high end groups without one", it's a bit hand wavey, monk's strong and popular but plenty of groups are not running one, even those at least of those available on twitch, the world first group for the last boss of the tier didnt have one, they had a black mage as a 4th slot.

Outside the people going for world first and early clears its still really popular, if im reading that graph right only 10% of groups dont have a reaper, that doesnt seem good when you have 4 other melee jobs, what did these numbers look like in previous expansions? I'd imagine samurai was the previously most popular class but this seems a bit excessive, its got a higher play rate than ninja + dragoon + samurai

[Kolsykol]

RPR so far is for savage prog groups is basically mandatory, that's how good they are right now with both dps and utility. Red mage is always in a prog group because of easy rez access. None of the prog groups seem to care about NIN TA attack anymore and the flex slot seems to be basically either mnk or sam. I think I only saw Happy's group with a DRG.

I do have faith that they will solve it in 6.1, I just think it sucks that we have to wait that long and that the first Savage tier will essentially be '' besmirched '' for a lack of a better term.
The balance should be better for it imo, it's very obviously unbalanced you don't need Savage data to see that.

I feel especially bad for DRG.