So you're telling me..

[Kazimere]

Even at 90, it’s within the margin of error, and samurai is still top dog aDPS wise, which is what matters for Reaper as well. Reaper overtakes Samurai for aDPS around the 70% bracket, and it is extremely close. People are putting way too much on Circle’s 3% that is used selfishly. Reaper plays into windows just as much as Samurai does.

Reaper being forgiving I got nothing for. It’s there, and I’d personally like to be punished more for execution mistakes that aren’t uptime related. I’m chalking that up to SE trying something new with Reaper and being on the conservative side with their kit. Samurai was as well when it was released. It’s not going to get more depth right now though. It’s a brand new job, so instead of people crying for it to be nerfed (when it’s not even broken) maybe they should learn to play it well and look for ways to improve its depth. As it stands, I don’t think anyone who is adamant about it being nerfed even plays it at any length, or is able to put up a good showing with it. Translation? Their opinions mean jack on the matter, both because of their “objective” lack of understanding of the job, and because it just comes off as hating.

Personally, if Ninja and Dragoon were doing more DPS and the base version of Reaper had a little more depth (as if samurai has THAT much) I wonder if we’d hear people bitching to this degree.

On a last note. Yoshi-P implied pretty explicitly during the LL that he intended reaper to compete with samurai. The question was explicitly asked. A fact that people seem to want to overlook because of their feelings. It’s still behind on aDPS and within the margin of error on rDPS. I don’t see the problem. It competes with Samurai.

Regarding my comment to iruru about wiping the floor. I’m sure when I said it, then it was because I was responding in kind to her being tasteless. It’s just not my style to do that unprovoked. If I cared enough, I’d go back and find the post that prompted that response. Allas, I don’t though.

As it stands. I’m done with the conversation. We are not going to agree on this. I don’t think nerfs are called for for anyone, because I don’t agree with nerfs when something isn’t broken. I believe in buffing under-performers.

[Scuoll]

Even at 90, it’s within the margin of error, and samurai is still top dog aDPS wise, which is what matters for Reaper as well. Reaper overtakes Samurai for aDPS around the 70% bracket, and it is extremely close. People are putting way too much on Circle’s 3% that is used selfishly. Reaper plays into windows just as much as Samurai does.

Reaper being forgiving I got nothing for. It’s there, and I’d personally like to be punished more for execution mistakes that aren’t uptime related. I’m chalking that up to SE trying something new with Reaper and being on the conservative side with their kit. Samurai was as well when it was released. It’s not going to get more depth right now though. It’s a brand new job, so instead of people crying for it to be nerfed (when it’s not even broken) maybe they should learn to play it well and look for ways to improve its depth. As it stands, I don’t think anyone who is adamant about it being nerfed even plays it at any length, or is able to put up a good showing with it. Translation? Their opinions mean jack on the matter, both because of their “objective” lack of understanding of the job, and because it just comes off as hating.

Personally, if Ninja and Dragoon were doing more DPS and the base version of Reaper had a little more depth (as if samurai has THAT much) I wonder if we’d hear people bitching to this degree.

Yeah we can for sure agree to disagree on buffing vs nerfing when it comes to balance and stuff like that, some part of your argument though i think just dont make sense regardless of opinion, what does it even mean the circle is used selfishly? Is it because it gives you plentiful harvest? As it is now "selfish" use or not its still contributing around the same rdps as battle litany (20 to 30 less so its really negligible), which is supposed to be the main buff of a more rdps focused job like dragoon.

Now if you have adps comparable to sam like the lord and saviour yoshi p has said (which i think just means they intend rpr to be more of an adps job but i am not him so ofc i may be wrong), but you also have a raid buff as good as battle litany, doesnt it make sense that people point that out? I understand the argument that if you are looking at your logs to improve you want to look at adps since that depends on you while rdps depends on how well your teammates play, but that damage still exists.

Also your "what if reaper was harder/had more depth and the other classes were tuned better" is just funny, yeah, surprisingly if balance was better less people would complain about it, i think its pretty easy to understand why being outperformed by people putting in less effort than you feels bad.

[Ransu]

My point, is that people in the community put arbitrary standards on things, based off what they “think” things should be, and then start slapping buzzwords like “objective” onto things, as if that fallacy gives their argument more weight. They have no idea, and id be fine with that if they’d just accept that this whole argument is merely opinions, and those things are like assholes. Everyone has one, and they all stink.

I honestly don’t care if reaper gets nerfed, because I can just go play something else if it’s not allowed to be brought in. Hell, I have to do that right now with all the reapers running around anyway, and I main reaper. However, this notion that it’s over performing is false. It’s literally not top in aDPS (which is what matters for reaper), and it’s not top on rDPS. Maybe people just need to learn to play samurai or monk better, cause both of them can beat reaper. Monk most of all.

If reaper has any issue, it’s that its floor and ceiling are too close.

We literally have the logs showing that reaper is absolutely over performing. It by an far has significantly more raid utility than DRG and NIN and its destroying both in both rDPS and aDPS and in most fights its outperforming MNK and SAM (MNK being another job that needs a nerf to bring it down to DRG/NIN levels)

[Kazimere]

We literally have the logs showing that reaper is absolutely over performing. It by an far has significantly more raid utility than DRG and NIN and its destroying both in both rDPS and aDPS and in most fights its outperforming MNK and SAM (MNK being another job that needs a nerf to bring it down to DRG/NIN levels)

You’re literally wrong. I can literally see the same logs as you.

[Ransu]

You’re literally wrong. I can literally see the same logs as you.

Ok buddy lol. Reaper is getting nerfed regardless so I guess this is a moot point.

[IruruCece]

You’re literally wrong. I can literally see the same logs as you.

You have a track record of misinterpreting tooltips we all literally have access to, so you misinterpreting FFLogs isn't exactly outside your wheelhouse.

[Gruntler]

You have a track record of misinterpreting tooltips we all literally have access to, so you misinterpreting FFLogs isn't exactly outside your wheelhouse.

There's someone in this thread that's trying to use top adps logs as any sort of statement on job balance and you're on this guy's ass?

ADPS only measures skill within a job when compared within a job. It has nothing to do with balance. It should never be brought up in a balance discussion.

What matters is ability-to-clear. Not an ability to top meters (that's player driven not game-driven), not the 99th percentile, but the output of players across a spectrum of skill levels so they can clear.

'But but but week one savage clears'

They don't balance around week one savage clears either. They balance around a longer timeline for savage clears.

SE literally does not give a shit about orange parsing or parsing. They care about clears.

[IruruCece]

There's someone in this thread that's trying to use top adps logs as any sort of statement on job balance and you're on this guy's ass?

Yes, I am riding on the guy who deliberately misinterprets the data across the entire spectrum, in game tooltips, makes appeals to emotion while simultaneously decrying any arguments against his statements as appeals to emotion, and has actively admitted to just being here to troll and has also admitted that maybe the job he's been defending in this thread might actually be easier to play while paradoxically getting angry about that very fact being pointed out. You got another question for me? Maybe a relevant contribution to the discussion? Or are you just here to play defense for a self-admitted troll?

[Kazimere]

Yes, I am riding on the guy who deliberately misinterprets the data across the entire spectrum, in game tooltips, makes appeals to emotion while simultaneously decrying any arguments against his statements as appeals to emotion, and has actively admitted to just being here to troll and has also admitted that maybe the job he's been defending in this thread might actually be easier to play while paradoxically getting angry about that very fact being pointed out. You got another question for me? Maybe a relevant contribution to the discussion? Or are you just here to play defense for a self-admitted troll?

What in game tooltips have I misrepresented? What appeals to emotion am I making? I said I was trolling a person. What does that have to with trolling the conversation as a whole? What am I getting angry about? Let’s not make blatantly obvious straw men, please.

[Kazimere]

There's someone in this thread that's trying to use top adps logs as any sort of statement on job balance and you're on this guy's ass?

ADPS only measures skill within a job when compared within a job. It has nothing to do with balance. It should never be brought up in a balance discussion.

What matters is ability-to-clear. Not an ability to top meters (that's player driven not game-driven), not the 99th percentile, but the output of players across a spectrum of skill levels so they can clear.

'But but but week one savage clears'

They don't balance around week one savage clears either. They balance around a longer timeline for savage clears.

SE literally does not give a shit about orange parsing or parsing. They care about clears.

That is not true. They all matter. rDPS isn’t the end all. It’s just what people think matters most because it’s what ff logs uses to rank. Now, what SE uses to balance I have no idea.