So you're telling me..

[Kazimere]

Dragoon is in no way shape or form hard to play. The fact that you have some weaves between the 2.45-2.48 gcd it’s running doesn’t make it so. Ninja is not hard to play. None of the melee are hard to play. The skill representation for melee is in uptime and being able to maintain your rotation during mechanics. For reaper, who doesn’t really have a rotation, it is in properly setting up your burst windows for the encounter. It is what their DPS relies on. Shrouding whenever it’s available is not how to properly play it usually. There is a lot of risk in that, because its shrouded abilities comprise the majority of its DPS.

People keep bitching about reaper and it’s likely the more fine tuned job at the moment. It’s kit is also solid, but not perfect. People bitching about AC like reapers are using it to help the raid usually. They aren’t. The ones who are using it often are primarily using it to allow themselves to eat certain mechanics to maintain uptime.

[IruruCece]

Dragoon is in no way shape or form hard to play. The fact that you have some weaves between the 2.45-2.48 gcd it’s running doesn’t make it so. Ninja is not hard to play. None of the melee are hard to play. The skill representation for melee is in uptime and being able to maintain your rotation during mechanics. For reaper, who doesn’t really have a rotation, it is in properly setting up your burst windows for the encounter. It is what their DPS relies on. Shrouding whenever it’s available is not how to properly play it usually. There is a lot of risk in that, because its shrouded abilities comprise the majority of its DPS.

People keep bitching about reaper and it’s likely the more fine tuned job at the moment. It’s kit is also solid, but not perfect. People bitching about AC like reapers are using it to help the raid usually. They aren’t. The ones who are using it often are primarily using it to allow themselves to eat certain mechanics to maintain uptime.

"Jobs that have rotations are easy, not like Reaper, 'which doesn't really have a rotation' and has to properly set up its burst windows, unlike other jobs that have to set up their burst windows while keeping to their rotation."

Tell me you boosted Ninja without actually saying you boosted Ninja, lmao

[Wyakin]

"Jobs that have rotations are easy, not like Reaper, 'which doesn't really have a rotation' and has to properly set up its burst windows, unlike other jobs that have to set up their burst windows while keeping to their rotation."

Tell me you boosted Ninja without actually saying you boosted Ninja, lmao

ninja ISNT hard though. You basically 123 for 50s then press everything at once within your 10s trick window. repeat for 10 mins = profit.

[IruruCece]

ninja ISNT hard though. You basically 123 for 50s then press everything at once within your 10s trick window. repeat for 10 mins = profit.

Nice level 50 ninja you got there.

[Wyakin]

Nice level 50 ninja you got there.

Nice of you to assume this is my main character.

The best thing about your response is you assume that because I've not levelled NIN (which I have, I cleared ALL of SHB content on NIN) you believe I can't know what I'm talking about. However, truth is... ninja... is jsut 123 for 50s with the odd mudra. followed by 10s of press all your 60s/120s CDs within the window. thats not complex...

[IruruCece]

"Jokes on u, i was only pretending 2 b ignorant"

Sure, Jan.

[Kazimere]

"Jobs that have rotations are easy, not like Reaper, 'which doesn't really have a rotation' and has to properly set up its burst windows, unlike other jobs that have to set up their burst windows while keeping to their rotation."

Tell me you boosted Ninja without actually saying you boosted Ninja, lmao

Nah, never boosted melee or tanks. Boosted the shit out of healers and ranged though. You’re not even worth my time. I’d love to run content with you on any job you choose and wipe the floor with you though.

[VentVanitas]

1 v 1 me chocobo racing bro

[Ransu]

it's not really about difficult = strong, it's about jobs having extra depth more skilled and knowledgeable people can use to apply and making a difference in their performance, very easy example if BLM, stats have already been posted in this thread, the difference between a good BLM and a mediocre one is pretty big, but the mediocre one is still in the realm of being able to clear a boss.

Define depth or difficulty in general? You'll have a lot of people that say BLM is extremely simplistic and has very little depth to, especially with all the QoL changes it has had and you'll equally get people who say its too difficult to play.

Which one do you listen to? Who decides said class should be better than others on merit of difficulty alone? BLM is designed to be top because it lacks raid utility and it only brings raw dps which is exactly how it should be. How difficult or easy BLM is to play should have no bearing on its DPS balance.

The problem people have with reaper is your inputs barely make a difference, again as demonstrated by the statistics, the difference between a good RPR and a mediocre one is not that big but the difference between the same good and mediocre players on another job is much bigger, reapers hardly get punished for mistakes or not seizing an opportunity.

The problem with reaper is that its overtuned for how much utility it has. Its pushing out too much dps regardless of player skill. It could be the most difficult job in the game and I'd still be calling for it to be nerfed. If its gonna be doing DPS on the level of SAM and BLM then it needs to lose its utility, otherwise its DPS needs to drop down.

This Machinist and Dancer erasure is pretty hilarious imho. They exist, are extremely easy to play compared to a considerable majority of the jobs in the game, and are also competing with Summoner for lowest DPS in the game. Seems like difficulty and output are correlated for some jobs, at the very least.

Don't be ridiculous. Ease of use has nothing to do with their lower DPS and has everything to do with game balance in uptime. DNC is a support close and BRD/MCH basically have 100% uptime during mechanics with the only exception obviously being when the boss leaves the stage. You can't have that kind of uptime and have high DPS. Its why I wasn't surprised at all when I saw SMN numbers. I KNEW they would be in the the physical ranged area of DPS before EW came out. That said, I think SMN is underperforming and needs a buff, but don't expect it to significantly outperform ranged physical jobs since SMN is essentially completely all instant casts now.

Comparing fighting games with an MMO that has a GCD per command input isn't exactly a great comparison, and it roundly ignores the natures of both games while also ignoring some very basic things about motivating players in ANY videogame. It also ignores real fighting game examples where complex inputs on difficult to use characters often results in extremely powerful attacks (and can turn an otherwise difficult to play character who may be at a general disadvantage against a 'meta' character into a very dangerous matchup).

I wasn't making a comparison, just using it as an example of why I don't consider difficulty a valid reason for balance. One of my friends for example cannot do Akira's 1F knee. Meanwhile I can fire it off over and over again with zero issues. "Difficulty" is subjective. I find doing his 1F knee to be quite easy to do and I don't believe he should be as strong as he is in VF5FS just because he has 2 or 3 "difficult" moves, one of which you can ignore and still compete just fine with the character.

Obviously MMO's are different, especially being mostly PvE, but my point was I think balancing around ease or use or not is dumb. Should a class that's slightly more complicated be more rewarding? Sure. NIN imo should be a little better than it is right now. Should that be the defining reason? Absolutely not. RPR is 100% overperforming, but I don't agree with the idea that it should have the lowest melee dps just because its "easy" to play. Its DPS range should be in line with the rest of the melee DPS that have raid utility.

If the only thing driving people to play Ninja at this point is ~the aesthetic~, it's no wonder fewer players are bothering to show their mastery of the job in more demanding endgame content. Just roll up with a Reaper and contribute more for far less effort and fancier particle effects.

As far as I'm concerned, a well balanced MMO would lead to exactly that. You play a class because of its aesthetics, not because it outclasses everyone else.

Ähem what?! Mind to enlighten me?

YP claimed "difficult won´t effect performance" as other said. But phys. range pay tax, because they don´t have to cast or care about melee-uptime. This means, they´re easier to play and lose DPS cause of that. Or do i miss something?

That has nothing to do with difficulty and everything to do with game design and balance. As I said to someone else, you can't have that level of uptime and high dps. Regardless of how easy RPR is, they are still a melee class that has to lose uptime to mechanics unliked ranged classes.

[Ransu]

For reaper, who doesn’t really have a rotation, it is in properly setting up your burst windows for the encounter. It is what their DPS relies on. Shrouding whenever it’s available is not how to properly play it usually. There is a lot of risk in that, because its shrouded abilities comprise the majority of its DPS.

Reaper absolutely has a rotation. What they do in between buff windows is a bit more priority based, but they still very much have a rotation.....