So you're telling me..

[Evos]

@ssunny2008
"utility and its use
- the amount of buttons you need to do X damage
- circumstances like positionals, animationslocks, double-weaving
- the possibilities to missplay / to lose uptime"

This I can understand, and mostly agree to all the defined points.

However, to arguments about utility, this is a bit of an issue if you value unique differences or mechanics that a single job can bring to a team. If you don't enjoy differences between jobs we quickly find ourselves back to discusing having equitable standard(s) skills of same or similar function across the roles. The later is what I feel we are in now considering the comparison between non-healer jobs bringing hps to a group. Now we feel the need to find imbalance or equitable skills (Mantra, phoenix flame regen) and balance them. Why because it's "to useful and I can't/my job can't do such well/as good.

This is fine until you realize as you said the impact of this repeated cycle on the balance process. The devs look at the constant need to address these player specific concerns and they just remove the situation altogether. In the end only certain values are satisfied and the other just as important values (of battle design) held across the playerbase is nulled.

We just can't have it all unless we are willing to give up certain things that my or their job can or cannot do. Funny because we the player base have access to all the classes lol. Yet we actively hinder our own jobs.

The other points other than animation locks and forced to double weave (probably forced downtime) can have similar arguments made. They lead to the dev(s) either trying to address every subjective value or making it easy for themselves by removing or in this case, giving out the equivalent of roles skills without actually just placing these skills in the role skills system. Do we now want a regen party role skill as well.

Lastly, yes no one wants broken skills but I'm pretty sure that will be easily visible to the devs if and only if it falls outside of their intended parameters.

[Scuoll]

However, to arguments about utility, this is a bit of an issue if you value unique differences or mechanics that a single job can bring to a team. If you don't enjoy differences between jobs we quickly find ourselves back to discusing having equitable standard(s) skills of same or similar function across the roles. The later is what I feel we are in now considering the comparison between non-healer jobs bringing hps to a group. Now we feel the need to find imbalance or equitable skills (Mantra, phoenix flame regen) and balance them. Why because it's "to useful and I can't/my job can't do such well/as good.

This is fine until you realize as you said the impact of this repeated cycle on the balance process. The devs look at the constant need to address these player specific concerns and they just remove the situation altogether. In the end only certain values are satisfied and the other just as important values (of battle design) held across the playerbase is nulled.

We just can't have it all unless we are willing to give up certain things that my or their job can or cannot do. Funny because we the player base have access to all the classes lol. Yet we actively hinder our own jobs.

The other points other than animation locks and forced to double weave (probably forced downtime) can have similar arguments made. They lead to the dev(s) either trying to address every subjective value or making it easy for themselves by removing or in this case, giving out the equivalent of roles skills without actually just placing these skills in the role skills system. Do we now want a regen party role skill as well.

You know, i kinda agree with the idea that having access to different utility tools on dps classes is a good thing for the game, makes for more variety and it gives room to different classes to shine on different occasions, however, as it is currently implemented, it is not.

You say things like "you should be willing to accept there are certain things my job cannot do" which is alright, if there are other things it excels at, as it is right now one class has all of the best options with none of the downsides, and that just cant be good.

As it is right now, this kind of utility is so rare, which makes it way more valuable, and there are not any alternatives, there is no choice if its a single skill on a single job, which also happens to do the most damage.

If long-term, you are going to be able to make the decision : can i go reaper for arcane crest healing or some other class with a comparable skill, then sure, i think that's better for the game, but you cant argue its good right now if several classes are arbitrarily shafted.
Also, the fact that we have access to all jobs doesnt mean its ok if they make one way better than the others, that is just plain stupid, people may not like that one job's playstyle,looks,fantasy, whatever it is, its not a good excuse for poor balance.