So you're telling me..

[Maverick_Haas]

Weird, my bad, ill link some more :

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/14dmT...5&type=healing

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/HyqC9...3&type=healing

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/XbA2B...1&type=healing

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...=DPS&boss=1059

Interesting, but I'd like to point out that although your fight specific logs show that the RPR indeed out heals the tanks, that it is not a true metric when compared to overall tanks vs overall RPR.

This shows tanks out healing RPRs by roughly 1k on average
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...anks&boss=1059

If you're going to point out that WARs are just broken right now, here are PLD also out healing RPRs.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...9&spec=Paladin

Granted, GNB and DRK average around 900~1k.

But if you compare RPR with other DPS, notably DNC, it certainly does look like Crest is overtuned. I suspect either DNC will get a buff or RPR will see a slight nerf, probably 100 -> 50 potency if I had to guess.

[Ransu]

Honestly none of this matters. We all know RPR is getting nerfed along with likely WAR while SMN and DRG will likely see some buffs.

[ZiraZ]

Interesting, but I'd like to point out that although your fight specific logs show that the RPR indeed out heals the tanks, that it is not a true metric when compared to overall tanks vs overall RPR.

This shows tanks out healing RPRs by roughly 1k on average
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...anks&boss=1059

If you're going to point out that WARs are just broken right now, here are PLD also out healing RPRs.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...9&spec=Paladin

Granted, GNB and DRK average around 900~1k.

But if you compare RPR with other DPS, notably DNC, it certainly does look like Crest is overtuned. I suspect either DNC will get a buff or RPR will see a slight nerf, probably 100 -> 50 potency if I had to guess.

Reaper deserves a nerf much bigger than that is crest is untouched, it should be under every other single melee in rDPS.
Even if crest if halved, they need to be under every other melee dps along with monk.
The only way to balance something that broken and keep reaper up there in damage is to make crest a personal defensive that has zero interactions with healing the raid.

[Maverick_Haas]

I really dont like this line of thinking, simply for the fact that while it is of course valid, playing what you enjoy is the most important thing, there is no point in playing this or any game if you dont have fun doing it, you can use it to throw out any balance issue ever, its a get a out of jail free card of sorts, feels cheap, in a game this big with jobs this similar to one another there should be better balancing, and honestly, would you be saying the same if reaper and ninja swapped spots on the graph?

Of course balancing is important, so that every job and even every configuration is viable within reason. My main concern here is that people are asking for nerfs such that RPR would be the gimp version of DRG, and iirc someone even suggested it to be less than NIN, all for a 3% damage raid wide that's more for enabling more damage during burst windows.

I find that RPR is fun to play with, especially coming from BLM. They have some utility to help the raid but most importantly they can still pull out big numbers when used correctly. Does it require some tuning? Yes, but should they be nerfed into oblivion? No, and I don't think they will. The design around RPR was meant to be a DPS dealer, aside from the obvious issues that will most likely have adjustments.

[Maverick_Haas]

Reaper deserves a nerf much bigger than that is crest is untouched, it should be under every other single melee in rDPS.
Even if crest if halved, they need to be under every other melee dps along with monk.
The only way to balance something that broken and keep reaper up there in damage is to make crest a personal defensive that has zero interactions with healing the raid.

I'm obviously not outlining the full list of changes... Could you pin your strawman somewhere else please?

[Scuoll]

Interesting, but I'd like to point out that although your fight specific logs show that the RPR indeed out heals the tanks, that it is not a true metric when compared to overall tanks vs overall RPR.

This shows tanks out healing RPRs by roughly 1k on average
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...anks&boss=1059

If you're going to point out that WARs are just broken right now, here are PLD also out healing RPRs.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...9&spec=Paladin

Granted, GNB and DRK average around 900~1k.

But if you compare RPR with other DPS, notably DNC, it certainly does look like Crest is overtuned. I suspect either DNC will get a buff or RPR will see a slight nerf, probably 100 -> 50 potency if I had to guess.

Idk man, yeah some tanks out heal them, and dnc on some fights i guess? But dnc is an utility focused job which is quite literally dead last on the meters, try and compare it to the other melees : only monk has a similar skill, and mantra is much worse.

[Maverick_Haas]

Idk man, yeah some tanks out heal them, and dnc on some fights i guess? But dnc is an utility focused job which is quite literally dead last on the meters, try and compare it to the other melees : only monk has a similar skill, and mantra is much worse.

I just want to avoid misrepresentation of facts.
I'm not above changing my mind, but I want to see the full picture.

[ZiraZ]

I'm obviously not outlining the full list of changes... Could you pin your strawman somewhere else please?

Is it a strawman? you're the one here saying with a straight face that reaper is fine because it's all about playstyles and if you want to pretend to be a ninja like in your animes it's fine even if it's severely underperforming
so yeah I fully expect your full list of changes to be just a tiny slap on the wrist instead of the proper full array of nerfs it deserves

[Maverick_Haas]

Is it a strawman? you're the one here saying with a straight face that reaper is fine because it's all about playstyles and if you want to pretend to be a ninja like in your animes it's fine even if it's severely underperforming
so yeah I fully expect your full list of changes to be just a tiny slap on the wrist instead of the proper full array of nerfs it deserves

...Does it require some tuning? Yes

So with all this in mind, yes RPR does have a bit of tuning to do, but it shouldn't be regarded as a utility job and nerfed to the ground...

...I do think RPR needs some slight tuning...

Need I go on? Not to be toxic but please read. I don't misrepresent or strawman you. I read everything you have posted and I understand your issues with the job, and thus I have attempted to argue in good faith.

Adding this since it's relevant with your quote here.

Of course balancing is important, so that every job and even every configuration is viable within reason. My main concern here is that people are asking for nerfs such that RPR would be the gimp version of DRG, and iirc someone even suggested it to be less than NIN, all for a 3% damage raid wide that's more for enabling more damage during burst windows.

[ZiraZ]

Need I go on? Not to be toxic but please read. I don't misrepresent or strawman you. I read everything you have posted and I understand your issues with the job, and thus I have attempted to argue in good faith.

Adding this since it's relevant with your quote here.

You claim to read but still remain completely biased, if you say so.