Nothing makes sense and it's all Elidibus' fault (Spoilers)

[NegativeS]

I could handle G'raha Tia's time travel shenanigans, but the stuff with Elpis I just cannot get behind.

First of all, it is all but confirmed that the Warrior of Light's presence in the unsundered star did have an effect on the future, as Venat as Hydaelyn does remember the Warrior of Light from the past. Nobody else does for some reason; Meteion, as the largest example, is surprised when we know Hermes' name, even though during that span of time we interacted with Meteion more than Hermes did.

Additionally, while it's also implied that the sundered souls inherited some of the personality(?) from their Amaurotine selves, this manifests nowhere even though the Warrior of Light was seen by, conservatively, a few dozen ancients in Elpis, who likely should have spoken of the sightings of 'Azem's Familiar' or even talked to him about it.

Branching off of that, if the Warrior of Light being handwaved away in Elpis as Azem's Familiar was made aware to more Amaurotines than the one who were mind wiped by Kardion, wouldn't query of this have reached Azem themselves, or at least some member of the convocation?

Would Zodiark contain a soul that knew about the Warrior of Light? Would this have influence how Zodiark acted in the WoL's presence? Would they know they had a connection to Azem even while carrying Azem's funny lemon-flavored crystal that can summon the Scions back from the dead?

I blame Elidibus for all of this. Time is a flat circle.

[Avidria]

Things get even messier when you start to ask what happened in G'raha's "original" timeline, and whether that actually even was the original, because it raises questions of whether Venat would've even come to sundering as the best option if we hadn't been involved, and how that confrontation with Hermes and Meteion in Elpis would've differed if we weren't a factor in the fight. It also makes the timeline G'raha abandoned look even more bleak because if the Unsundered's plans to restore Old Etheirys had actually worked then they still would've been stuck dealing with Meteion's world ending song since without their memories they still wouldn't have known what caused it in the first place, so they'd be back at worse than square one and basically fighting off the end days (again) anyway. Just without anyone in the know about wtf is actually going on.

...personally I choose to just handwave it as "time is a weird vaguely loop shaped mess and probably has some mechanism to keep it from breaking itself somewhere." Lmao

[SDaemon]

I could handle G'raha Tia's time travel shenanigans, but the stuff with Elpis I just cannot get behind.

First of all, it is all but confirmed that the Warrior of Light's presence in the unsundered star did have an effect on the future, as Venat as Hydaelyn does remember the Warrior of Light from the past. Nobody else does for some reason; Meteion, as the largest example, is surprised when we know Hermes' name, even though during that span of time we interacted with Meteion more than Hermes did.

Additionally, while it's also implied that the sundered souls inherited some of the personality(?) from their Amaurotine selves, this manifests nowhere even though the Warrior of Light was seen by, conservatively, a few dozen ancients in Elpis, who likely should have spoken of the sightings of 'Azem's Familiar' or even talked to him about it.

Branching off of that, if the Warrior of Light being handwaved away in Elpis as Azem's Familiar was made aware to more Amaurotines than the one who were mind wiped by Kardion, wouldn't query of this have reached Azem themselves, or at least some member of the convocation?

Would Zodiark contain a soul that knew about the Warrior of Light? Would this have influence how Zodiark acted in the WoL's presence? Would they know they had a connection to Azem even while carrying Azem's funny lemon-flavored crystal that can summon the Scions back from the dead?

I blame Elidibus for all of this. Time is a flat circle.

I believe they handwave your first question when they are aboard the ship and Meteion makes a comment about you possibly having met one of her sisters. Shared consciousness what?? The 2nd I'm not sure why the Amaurotines would pay all that much mind about what they considered a familiar. Lastly WoL had no interactions with the Elidibus of the past.

[ryouma17]

it is all but confirmed that the Warrior of Light's presence in the unsundered star did have an effect on the future, as Venat as Hydaelyn does remember the Warrior of Light from the past. Nobody else does for some reason

what you mean by "for some reason" they clearly explain that hermes/emet/hythlo had their memories wiped so only venat remember we we're on elpis that day, and since venat knows whats in store she chose not to divulge the info about the final days

Meteion, as the largest example, is surprised when we know Hermes' name, even though during that span of time we interacted with Meteion more than Hermes did.

its been a few thousand years since that fateful day in elpis its possible meteion forgot who we where.

Additionally, while it's also implied that the sundered souls inherited some of the personality(?) from their Amaurotine selves, this manifests nowhere even though the Warrior of Light was seen by, conservatively, a few dozen ancients in Elpis, who likely should have spoken of the sightings of 'Azem's Familiar' or even talked to him about it.

this was also explained, some amaurotines can see the color of someones souls but not everyone has that ability, so far the only amaurotines we've met that can do that is emet and hythlo, and when we first met them they thought we were azems familiar dure to our souls color but when we explained the truth, hythlo told us that since we act differently then other amaurotines its obvious we arnt one of them so if anyone asks to tell them we are azems familiar however no one actually asked us probably because the researchers on elpis are used to seeing strange things everyday and therefore do not question a new familiar they have not seen yet

Would Zodiark contain a soul that knew about the Warrior of Light? Would this have influence how Zodiark acted in the WoL's presence? Would they know they had a connection to Azem even while carrying Azem's funny lemon-flavored crystal that can summon the Scions back from the dead?

zodiark was elidibus and elidibus had no idea who we were since he had never met us before the sundering and since emet lost his memory he was unable to tell the convocation about us, and the zodiark that we ended up fighting wasnt elidibus it was fandaniel

Branching off of that, if the Warrior of Light being handwaved away in Elpis as Azem's Familiar was made aware to more Amaurotines than the one who were mind wiped by Kardion, wouldn't query of this have reached Azem themselves, or at least some member of the convocation?

familiars are a common sight on etheirys since everyone has creation magic and also since familiars dont need to be reported unless someone plans to unleash them into the world most people ignore someones familiar, i highly doubt the convocation would care that azems familiar was in elpis, everyone on the convocation knows that the current azem is a bit eccentric so one really pays any attention to the anything strange involving azem

[RitsukoSonoda]

Essentially what they're playing at is 2 possible time travel effects.

Effect 1 is making the timeline branch into additional parallel possiblities. Hence bits said that anything done in the past wont change the present.

Effect 2 implied at other points is that the present is a result of things we did in the past essentially meaning a sort of event loop like stewie creating the big bang birthing the universe which he was born in later or fry being his own grandpa...

[Rolder50]

It also makes the timeline G'raha abandoned look even more bleak because if the Unsundered's plans to restore Old Etheirys had actually worked then they still would've been stuck dealing with Meteion's world ending song since without their memories they still wouldn't have known what caused it in the first place, so they'd be back at worse than square one and basically fighting off the end days (again) anyway. Just without anyone in the know about wtf is actually going on.

This isn't entirely true. If all the shards were merged as per the Unsundered plans, Zodiark would still be alive, assuming Elidibus is the "Core" of Zodiark and not that nutter Fandaniel. Since Zodiark is still alive, they still have the protection from Meteion. We only lost it when Zodiark dies, not when he is freed. Now, they WOULD be back at square one if Zodiark died for some other reason, but that could be way in the future if at all.

[Rannie]

About Azem know Hythlodaeus himself said that even if we weren't a familiar and if Azem was there he would basically for the Lulz go along with Us being their familiar.

[Silver-Strider]

Lastly WoL had no interactions with the Elidibus of the past.

Think this depends on if Themis is Elidibus or not.

[Chie_M]

Think this depends on if Themis is Elidibus or not.

The post-credits voiced cutscene confirms that he is.

[Powercow]

The post-credits voiced cutscene confirms that he is.

See that's something that bugs me. It's obvious Themis is Elidibus. Really obvious. TOO obvious.

Like, every other time this expansion there was a "twist" that was super-duper obvious they just call it out right away. Loporrits with a mysterious group they're in contact with? Yeah, it's the Forum, we know. A mysterious dragon ally of some dude who rules Thavnair with some weird red-eyed kid with a weirdly large amount of authority? Yeah pull down the curtain and show yourself, Vrtra. But then there's Themis and... nobody's calling it out. Maybe the WoL is just kinda dumb, one too many hits to the head. Y'shtola and Estinien were the ones to call out the ones above. I dunno. I think they might do some weird double-fakeout.