Summoner Needs to be buffed

[Shurrikhan]

You cannot, in good conscious, say Summoner deserves to be incredibly weak due to its ease of play yet ignore that Reaper is both the best Melee DPS and arguably the best DPS overall in the entire game while also being among the easiest.

I haven't. I literally just said that Reaper is most likely the outlier in early design and deserves to be nerfed. Which then means there is no <the devs have everything tuned per their intent already despite this being the start of the expansion" warrant by which to insist Summoner must remain as low as it is.

If we're going to hold that over Summoner, then Reaper needs to be pulling less than Ninja.

I already agreed with this.

Once again, this is why balance around difficulty doesn't work and isn't something the dev team ever consistently follows.

No, that tuning is, at the very launch of an expansion, unfinished... in no way indicates that complexity cannot ever be a factor in how the devs tune jobs.

When was the last time Machinist was a top-tier rDPS? When it was complex.
When was Summoner a top-tier rDPS? When it was complex.

... you might want to reread what I said because that wasn't my logic in the slightest. The whole crux was to illustrate why the difficulty argument is flawed.

You used Reaper an example (of equally early tuning) to indicate that it must be indicative of the dev's balancing logic --insisting that Reaper must be ranked where it is because the devs meant it to be ranked where it is-- even while complaining that Summoner, equally an example of early tuning, must not deserve to be ranked where it is.

Neither should be where they are. Reaper provides too much utility and too little complexity to deserve to have the highest or second highest rDPS. Summoner provides too little utility, even given its low complexity until being perfectly min-maxed, to be as low as it is.

[Duskane]

RDM is overpowered now. RDM needs either nerfed to SMN level or BLM and SMN both need to be buffed. Because BLM does 2% more than RDM, nobody is gonna use that zero utility caster.

I think RDM is fine where it is
everything besides MNK and RPR need a buff

[Mondschnee]

I agree that SMN needs to be buffed, just for the fact alone that it can be competitive enough to justify a spot in a raid. I wouldn't mind having more cast times for that. They probably won't adjust the rotation to be more engaging and have proper build up so I won't hope for that. :/

[IdowhatIwant]

So can anyone give an example of a complex DPS class currently?

[Dyvid]

Complex is subjective and not a good leg to stand on when discussing damage. FFXIV doesn't really have "complex" jobs these days. Each role has or rather is suppose to have it's unique challenges when in comes to damage. Melee DPS has to stay within a bubble around the target, Magic DPS needs to stand still in order to cast, and Physical Ranged DPS provides Raid buffs.

SMN is the most mobile of the 3 with a raid damage boost, healing buff and raise ability.
RDM offer good mobility with raid damage boost, defense buff, along with healing and raise.
BLM offer decent mobility with no raid buffs.

The question who should deal more damage; SMN or RDM? How much should mobility play into that. RDM does have to stand still at times to cast and moving is a DPS lose were SMN doesn't in most regards.

I'm going to say SMN is going to get a buff based solo on SE decisions. Personally I feels SMN should be the lowest DPS of the 3 caster family mainly due to mobility. RDM insta raise does come into play but in things like farming runs for the hundredth time, people shouldn't be dying all too often and negates RDM's need to raise over DPS.

P.S. RPR is going to get a nerf as well.

[SargeTheSeagull]

No, summoner doesn’t need a buff. It needs a mini rework. It’s the most brain dead job in the game, there’s no feeling of “buildup” in the rotation at all, it takes no skill or thought to play effectively, it has practically no cast times, it’s healing utility is locked behind the first minute of the fight for some reason. Summoner is an absolute mess of a job and it needs major changes. I don’t mind it being simple, but there’s a difference between “simple” and “you literally cannot play improperly unless you refuse to press buttons”

[Maxilor]

In my opinion, a job's PDPS should be balanced with it's amount of Utility and RDPS potential REGARDLESS of the job's difficulty or complexity.

RDM provides more Utility and RDPS than SMN therefore SMN should do a bit more PDPS than RDM.

All DPS should have the potential to provide similar if not equal DPS Contribution to a fight no matter if they are Melee or Ranged.

The 'Range Tax' has lost it's purpose since most if not all Melee DPS classes have insane mobility nowadays.

Perceived Difficulty is up to the individual, a 'difficult' class to some may be child's play to another. Therefore, balancing DPS ability based on Perceived Difficulty is nonsense.

Thank you for reading.

[AnimazArk]

at least buff egis to do more dps than ranged classes, Mch And even BRDs are killing us, even with the last highest gear I can varely be above a bard and the instant I'm dead I go below on dps for the whole fight, sadly is easy to use but numbers aren't there, not good at all for savage :C please SE considere a buff

[Kolsykol]

I really wish SMN had one extra button, I feel like it'd be complete.
It just feels a bit monotonous atm >_<.
Like it's not a complete Job and too spammy.

It's kinda annoying because I truly like the concept a lot and think that the overall playstyle loop is great, it just needs the one extra button to make it a tad more busy.

[Daralii]

I hope they don't remove the regen or nerf it because it makes the skill very fun and rewarding to use. The CD needs to be increased, but a 60s CD would still be too strong imo.

A 90-120s range would be more appropriate, I think. Maybe increase the duration of the shield, so it's not too punishing.

Just make the heal personal, remove the group-wide component entirely, and it's on par with Third Eye.