Summoner Needs to be buffed

[Sequora]

Until the developers come out and say that summoner is now paying the “ranged tax”, people need to stop assuming that’s what’s happening. Summoner still has cast times, it’s just retaken the spot for the most mobile caster.

Rotation complexity also has nothing to do with how strong a job was. That’s terrible game balance. That just discourages people from playing anything except for the highest performing jobs.

I think the biggest issue with the job outside of adding a little more depth, is locking utility in certain phases. It feels bad that I can’t use my damage utility or personal shield if I have bahamut or phoenix out. Likewise having a “healing utility” if you can call it that locked into a 15 second window is really dumb, and shouldn’t even count as utility.

[CKNovel]

Until the developers come out and say that summoner is now paying the “ranged tax”, people need to stop assuming that’s what’s happening. Summoner still has cast times, it’s just retaken the spot for the most mobile caster.

"SMN still has casts", go play SMN 1 minute against a dummy and say that again.
That's like stepping in a puddle and saying you jumped in the swimming pool.

Ranged tax was never mentionned, sure people assume things but considering the most mobile job gets lesser damage, it's very easy to draw the line.
If SMN is buffed, all ranged must remain at SMN sides. You can't have one hard job and one easy job getting the same rewards.

But currently, the tax is certainly too high.

[Nyarlha]

Looks some people are going to be seething now that we are pretty close to RDM after the buff. Right where we are supposed to be.

[Risvertasashi]

"SMN still has casts", go play SMN 1 minute against a dummy and say that again.
That's like stepping in a puddle and saying you jumped in the swimming pool.

Ok. "Summoner still has casts"

About 4 per minute normally (3 of which are extra long, though you can negate 1 with swiftcast if you don't mind effectively giving up rez), except to line up Searing Light you'll have to hold DWT every 2 minutes, which in practical terms translates to more ruin 3 hardcasts. And then of course there's the melee restrictions on some.

Yes, it's highly mobile. But let's not pretend SMN is a physical ranged. There's a difference between a very mobile caster, and the classes which never ever have cast times and never ever have melee restrictions.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

You ever thought the reason phy range has low dam is because two out of the three are heavy on party utility. Brd and DNC have consistent buffs for either the whole party or for one person. You can argue mch should be higher in dps, which I do think mch needs to be higher but it could be where its at because of tactician. I really don't know why you are so against smn getting a slight buff so they are on par with rdm. As it stands there is no reason to take an smn over an rdm and your argument isn't helping that. :-/ Do I wish smn had more casts sure but I don't want to be punished for enjoying a job? Shoot I like to play both smn and rdm in my static but I basely been locked into smn bc rpr was taken and rdm was taken. I really don't have a choice but that is just me.

[Shurrikhan]

You ever thought the reason phy range has low dam is because two out of the three are heavy on party utility. Brd and DNC have consistent buffs for either the whole party or for one person. You can argue mch should be higher in dps, which I do think mch needs to be higher but it could be where its at because of tactician. I really don't know why you are so against smn getting a slight buff so they are on par with rdm. As it stands there is no reason to take an smn over an rdm and your argument isn't helping that. :-/ Do I wish smn had more casts sure but I don't want to be punished for enjoying a job? Shoot I like to play both smn and rdm in my static but I basely been locked into smn bc rpr was taken and rdm was taken. I really don't have a choice but that is just me.

Damage-increasing party buffs are already accounted for in rDPS. Dancer and Machinist are still terrible... even in rDPS (i.e., when accounting for all the damage they give to others).

That leaves their low performance explainable only by "fees" for...

• Troubadour, Tactician, and Shield Samba,
• Nature's Minne, Improvisation, and Curing Waltz,
• being considered easier to play, be that due to among the simplest rotations (MCH especially) or their hypermobility,

and/or

• presently poor tuning.

[Sequora]

"SMN still has casts", go play SMN 1 minute against a dummy and say that again.
That's like stepping in a puddle and saying you jumped in the swimming pool.

Ranged tax was never mentionned, sure people assume things but considering the most mobile job gets lesser damage, it's very easy to draw the line.
If SMN is buffed, all ranged must remain at SMN sides. You can't have one hard job and one easy job getting the same rewards.

But currently, the tax is certainly too high.

3 casts per minute is still more than any of the ranged DPS.

This would have been something that they had mentioned during the live letter pre endwalker when they were talking about the overhaul.

The job designers like their neat boxes too much to have a caster that is just a physical ranged without the title. This is even more apparent with their two shield healers + 2 pure healers.

Summoner also just got a fairly substantial DPS buff in the raid patch. Numbers are likely fairly close with red mage being slightly on top.

That being said, red mage is the better raid job right now. It brings more to the table:

1.) Slightly better damage
2.) A better DPS utility
3.) Faster rez
4.) Party damage reduction + bonus healing

[CKNovel]

I can't seriously take anyone saying that 3 casts is a burden.
Especially when BLM is considered a very mobile job.
You have the control of when your casting phase will be and can swiftcast slipstream.

I'm not against a SMN buff, mobility tax is nothing but a massive joke that.
However, it has to come with a PLD and Physical ranged buff.

[Mysticunicycle]

Damage-increasing party buffs are already accounted for in rDPS. Dancer and Machinist are still terrible... even in rDPS (i.e., when accounting for all the damage they give to others).

That leaves their low performance explainable only by "fees" for...

• Troubadour, Tactician, and Shield Samba,
• Nature's Minne, Improvisation, and Curing Waltz,
• being considered easier to play, be that due to among the simplest rotations (MCH especially) or their hypermobility,

and/or

• presently poor tuning.

I agree on all points. Since reaper is currently the strongest dps job in the game, and is in my opinion the second easiest dps job in the game to play after summoner, difficulty obviously isn't part of balance philosophy. The fastest job in this game plays at like 45 apm, which is 15 button presses slower than the average wow job. Nothing in FFXIV is rocket surgery or brain science, it's all just muscle memory and slow but deliberate decision making.

Even if difficulty were somehow part of the equation, unless SE thinks that every single person who plays the game is going to 100 parse every single fight, it's a useless metric.

[rewd]

I can't seriously take anyone saying that 3 casts is a burden.
Especially when BLM is considered a very mobile job.
You have the control of when your casting phase will be and can swiftcast slipstream.

I'm not against a SMN buff, mobility tax is nothing but a massive joke that.
However, it has to come with a PLD and Physical ranged buff.

We are not saying that a bunch of casts are an inssurmountable burden, we are saying it's stupid to act like SMN belong to the phys ranged category just because its rotation it's not casts all the time. Even if you have only a bunch of casts, you still take more decisions regarding your movement and position than a phys ranged, esepcially considering Ifrit's melee range

If you have to downplay the limitations that SMN has to prove your point, then your point is flawed to begin with.