The Bizarre Lack of Development and Pathos Concerning Zenos [6.0 Spoilers]

[HappyHubris]

The only thing that could redeem Zenos or make him sympathetic would be the writers directly apologizing for ressurecting him, building him up, and then doing literally nothing with the character.

The best version of Zenos was the one who died once and for all on that palace roof. I was beyond annoyed when he anticlimactically showed up at the end of EW's nuanced showdown to shout COME FITE ME BRO CHECK OUT MY GAINS.

[Lyth]

They haven't released a Zenos minion yet, so he'll be fine.

He should send in an application to the Scions just for the laugh. We don't have anyone on the team who can properly alternate from deadpan voice of common sense to extremely intimidating. Every so often, when you're in the middle of negotiating something, he could just put on that fanatical grin, prompting everyone to put their hands to their weapons. It would also be interesting to see his dynamic with Alisaie, given that they already have a bit of banter going over Azem.

[Elysidelphi]

They haven't released a Zenos minion yet, so he'll be fine.

He should send in an application to the Scions just for the laugh. We don't have anyone on the team who can properly alternate from deadpan voice of common sense to extremely intimidating. Every so often, when you're in the middle of negotiating something, he could just put on that fanatical grin, prompting everyone to put their hands to their weapons. It would also be interesting to see his dynamic with Alisaie, given that they already have a bit of banter going over Azem.

I mean we have minions of Scions who are still alive such as Alisaie, Alphinaud, Y'shtola, Thancred I think... Or of random NPCs who are not Scions like Cirina, Sadu, Magnai, Nanamo, etc. We also have minions of enemies who are still alive such as the Cloud of Darkness. So not sure what having or not having minions of a certain character even means anymore.

But yeah, such a fun idea about Zenos joining the Scions and acting like that!

[Erendis]

If they release Zenos minion before Emet-Selch, I'll be mad >.<

[Ignimortis]

Wasn't that the whole point of Zenos' arc in EW? He even says outright that he has no reason for what he does other than to fight WoL. If you don't like it, too bad, he doesn't care - his words, not mine.

And honestly, that blunt unwillingness to be sympathetic or redeemable really improved him in my eyes. The fact that he came to understand WoL better in EW also helped - in StB, Zenos claims that we're just like him, that we only seek the thrill of battle. In EW, he grasps the fact that WoL is a hero and does many things not out of bloodlust or seeking a challenge — after all, we wouldn't do a lot of things we've done if we were just looking for the next good fight.

Besides. his adjusted understanding of the WoL, as well as willingness to help us, means that he did evolve in a way. His new reasoning that heroics, while a major part of WoL's motivations, are not all of WoL's motivations, was extremely on point for me. After all, I enjoy combat in the game. I even find myself disappointed if an enemy does too quickly before I can use at least a few cool abilities. So...smirk and accept yourself - and him - for what you are? Don't mind if I do.

Also, Zenos was the perfect answer to EW's question about the meaning of life. His life has but one meaning, and he found it himself, and that's it. Life is what you make of it, nothing more and nothing less.

TL;DR: EW made me appreciate Zenos a lot more. He might not be as sympathetic or pitiable as other villains, but he finally found his groove. Not every villain needs to be like Emet-Selch or Elidibus.

[Denishia]

Zenos went from my least favorite character in XIV (Emet firmly has that bottom position now) to redeeming his role in the story somewhat by thematically fitting into the debate around nihilism as one of the complementary facets, and while I still wish there was a stronger option to at least try to walk away from that mandated final duel with him, said duel was the only other time besides Shinryu where fighting Zenos wasn't a chore. If Zenos returns in any way after that ending, it undoes the scraps of acceptance and tolerance I have for his character. And I was finally experiencing this emotion of 'not being bored and disgusted by the mere mention of Zenos' - don't take that away from me! *laughs*

[Elysidelphi]

In my opinion, Zenos is set up to return. There are way too many hints and clues around him, and way too many unanswered questions. Yoshi-P absolutely loves Zenos, the Japanese audiences love Zenos, Yoshi-P also loves good mysteries and slowly and deliberately building up a story, a mystery. All those clues and hints about Zenos will lead somewhere, there are too many to just be ignored forever. And Zenos might finally receive proper development, in-depth, the way the Ascians did in Shadowbringers and Endwalker, after they too, felt, for many years, as very boring villains/characters.

[Kesey]

In my opinion, Zenos is set up to return. There are way too many hints and clues around him, and way too many unanswered questions. Yoshi-P absolutely loves Zenos, the Japanese audiences love Zenos, Yoshi-P also loves good mysteries and slowly and deliberately building up a story, a mystery. All those clues and hints about Zenos will lead somewhere, there are too many to just be ignored forever. And Zenos might finally receive proper development, in-depth, the way the Ascians did in Shadowbringers and Endwalker, after they too, felt, for many years, as very boring villains/characters.

This is a worst case scenario, in my opinion. Bringing Zenos back from another "should be dead" situation so he can fight us again only creates the mystery of how did he cheat death this time...

[Elysidelphi]

This is a worst case scenario, in my opinion. Bringing Zenos back from another "should be dead" situation so he can fight us again only creates the mystery of how did he cheat death this time...

Nope, I never said that Zenos should be brough back so he could fight us again. He should be brought back so he can be given a redemption/rehabilitation arc, with depth and meaning. He could become an anti-hero. The possibilities are endless.

As for the mystery of how he cheated death this time, there are many possibilities, left there by the writers themselves:
1. He's an Ascian in everything but name
2. He's a Reaper and his voidsent can save his life (something shown in the Reaper questline)
3. He's surrounded by Dynamis which works on emotions alone, depending on his emotions and his willpower, he could achieve the "impossible".

If the writers wanted him 100% dead and with no way of ever, ever coming back, they would have shown his body dissipating into aether or into black smoke or something that would have left no doubt whatsoever that he is dead and beyond any possibility of ever returning. That's not what happened. He has been left there with many ways to come back both to life and back to our star/planet.

Oh and the thing with "But he stopped breathing!". Yeah, he stopped breathing in Stormblood as well, when he cut his own throat and then he was buried. He wasn't breathing then for a long time, yet he came back. So him not breathing is not absolute evidence that he is for sure dead with no way whatsoever to return.

[Anonymoose]

To articulate and earlier thought a bit better, Ishikawa-san once upon a time explained that she is not afraid to kill or resurrect anyone if she believes the story has use for them and can be improved by it. (Whether she takes into account the logical/emotional tax incurred on the viewer by not knowing what they can count on in the story, I'm unsure.)

To not show Zenos - the man who has nearly cut off his own head and lived - dissolve into mist and subsequently articulate the circumstances of his demise, I see that as....quantum narrative.

Endwalker spent an extraordinary amount of text tiles clarifying and repeating things making sure the minimal number of people could possibly inaccurately interpret things that were meant to be understood a specitic way. (Hells, sometimes the characters just won't. shut. up.) To not do it here feels...deliberate.

I see Zenos as simultaneously intended to be dead and intended to return.

To me, he is simultaneously dead and only-mostly-dead until we observe him and collapse the Zenos wave function.