Square Enix is running out of ideas for raids

[Skiros]

At some point, when an MMO gets to 8 or 10 years, encounters start becoming stale. This is understandable but the degree to which staleness permeates the newest normal raid series is just too much. It's weird that the dungeons for Endwalker feel so fresh compared to ShB ones, but this tier of raids is just completely uninspiring, and I highly, highly doubt that Savage will change that outlook. We have seen these mechanics over and over again and I feel like SE has just completely run out of ideas for new mechanics or new approaches to raid design. The creativity that I saw in HW is just not here anymore.

Square Enix needs to be more daring in its encounter design and try to be less concerned with difficulty balance and cohesion, which IMO are factors that limit their creativity. The current philosophy of using basic mechanics (left/right half-room cleaves, stack, spread, proximity, GA-100/Flare, etc.) as building blocks for raids, while efficient and often creating elegant raids, get very very stale for any veteran. We have seen the same frameworks too many times now (e.g.: debuff soup mechanics (Neo Exdeath, Final Omega, Oracle of Darkness)) as well.

Variety is the spice of life, and so too it goes for raid design. While having a majority of mechanics be stuff we've seen before is fine, or having mechanics be slight variations on existing mechanics (such as spreading by tile instead of player position as in Titan), this new tier truly has nothing creative to show for it. And again, I really, really doubt Savage will be much different (and even if Savage is much different, why did they not even attempt to incorporate the distinct elements in Normal which far more players go through?). I really hope Square Enix tries harder on creating variety for raids.

Now that Savage is out...

I've cleared the tier and it just doesn't seem like there was a lot of creativity this tier. I'm sure the developers can choose to make a raid tier memorable if they tried, but I'm guessing they're holding back because of some preconceived notion of Savage being a safe, accessible main piece of content that's the main attraction for a lot of players, resulting in them not daring to take risks. It's a shame.

Too many mechanics this tier just feel samey. I think Fountain of Fire and the role-based mechanics in P4S feel interesting enough (reminds me of O3). But it's too bad they never really expanded on it.

A huge part of why the Savage raids feel lame is because the flow of the encounter is such that you're mostly just solving puzzles one by one throughout the encounter. It feels disjointed and also means that any spark of creativity only gets seen for half a minute or so. Alexander raids had a good flow - mechanics stacked on top of each other and they were not discrete. Mechanics were often combined on top of each other which gives it a hectic and tense flow.

[Jybril]

Because of this games combat system, you won't get anything too crazy or different because the core won't allow it. Pretty much the same for everything combat in this game and probably why they homogenized everything.

[Remish]

Think for me, Im just kind of tired of generic circle and square rooms.
Like look at A7, we had prisons and spikes. A11 we had a steam roller boss with switches. Some Alliance raids have pads and platforms. Jump pads.
Checkered board fights like the Queen of Bozja and E4 are a step in the fight direction for me. Same with E9 and the tiles.
But nowadays, its just bland circles and squares, and drag the boss around the room. I don't mind the mechanics to much, but a change in the layout of the stage (aside from backgrounds) would be nice. Sometimes I just want to fight on a Triangle.

[Stanelis]

Because of this games combat system, you won't get anything too crazy or different because the core won't allow it. Pretty much the same for everything combat in this game and probably why they homogenized everything.

I mean 24+ players raids (24 players raids and Bozja/Eureka raids) are quite interesting on a mechanical standpoint so they definitely can do something if they wanted to. It's a fact that 8 players raids have been lacking in originality for some time now.

[DinahDemiurge]

It's because they are afraid to try anything outside their formula. As long as people keep playing it, they will keep making it.

[Kaurhz]

I'm just going to go ahead and pretty much agree with the above in that raid encounters should entail a little more than just simply square room or circle platform. I wouldn't necessarily call Heavensward a staple of creativity as far as mechanics are concerned in their normal mode encounter barring maybe that from Cuff of the Son, and maybe Heart of the Creator. Savage on the other hand arguably different as they had their own set of nice gimmicks. I think the one area in which HW did well is that the designs were a little more than square or circle rooms/platforms. The door bosses made them feel a little different and more unique, further, it felt a little more of an exploration (e.g. Cuff of the Father)

I don't really want to go ahead and make the assumption that their creativity is being exhausted (whilst it might be), I would be inclined more to attribute this to their design philosophy around Normal Mode, in that players should simply be able to queue up, have very minor challenges in solving and executing the mechanics and being out. I would say this is where their issues are since it largely conflicts with being able to really go all out with mechanics. The difficulty of solving these mechanics just largely rides on the player experience. Being a veteran clashes quite heavily with normal mode in that it all comes very intuitively. Solving the mechanics for newer or less experienced players? Not necessarily. I recall turn 4 initially taking a couple of attempts with the group I had for the tile mechanic. - I think this would also address the question of why they don't the incorporate some of these mechanics into the normal mode variant (it clashes with their design philosophy of normal mode). Sure they could incorporate them with a lot more leniency with failing the mechanics, but then in the end this could just result in the mechanics effectively not mattering if they're solved or not at normal mode level. - Unless they perhaps not necessarily take the inability of solving the mechanic as detriment (e.g. damage down or vuln stacks), but rather the correct execution of them perhaps rewarding a buff like dmg up, it'd be a nice baseline with having more difficult mechanics without necessarily having them as a punishment factor, but rather a reward factor. I think a somewhat good example of this would be the Flood of Light gauge from Refulgence (savage), in that 0 gauge resulted in a damage up buff.

The only real criticism I have is that they should try and create a little bit better of a smoother experience from going into Normal/casual > Savage/difficult. I mean sure it's largely down to player responsibility, but I feel like the game doesn't do enough. - I would like to say the story trials from this expansion were a perfect example of that middle ground, especially when I compare it to HW/SB/ShB. I just felt they personally posed more of a threat.

Aside from this the only feedback I would have is to try and make these raids feel a little more like raids. Even if that's just adding some corridor fodder before the boss, or 'boss' fights that isn't just a single entity, but rather something like a throwback once again to Cuff of the Father and Binding Coil Turns 3/4.

[FusiaRain]

not really I can think of 250 on top of my head without even trying lol there not going to run out of ideas anytime soon lol just need to get creative lol

[Kuroka]

Sometimes I just want to fight on a Triangle.

Or imagine something borderless where you dont have the typical pit or fire of death lol

Im really sick of all those small arenas... i want space, like the final solo duty, why were there even walls? Sometimes it just kills immersion...

[FusiaRain]

just to make a point

Raid 001:
Inside of SIN

fight 1 Seyemore -final version (if you know that you will know how complex it can get

Fight 2: Lord braska's final summon
fight 3: Lady yunalesca
Fight 4: Lady yunalesca's final summon
--part 2---
Lenne fight 1
Fight 2: Donna
fight 3: Biran Ronso and Yenke
fight 4: Jackht (not summon form)

raid 002:
We are limited to a boat (sailing or flying to a new content)
fight types:
1st fight Jenova life(first jenova)
2nd fight: Jenova Death
3rd fight: Hojo
4th fight: Reno&Rude
---fight landed at ancient city-
fight 1:Materia Keeper
fight 2:Rufus shinra
fight 3: Sephiorth (base form) -escapes and
Fight 4: Safer Sephiroth
raid 003:
Stepps journy

basicly we go deeper in the stepps fighting clan leaders with all unique and powerfull abilitys from other au'ra clans (legitly there are half a billion things we can do with just past ffs still and with in game content already.

could even have a raid about the 7 hells

[Jirah]

That’s always my issue with raids and instances fights in general, they simply don’t go off the wall and try anything new.

Makes sense to play it safe for trials but raids and dungeons they desperately need to experiment more, the only content they are willing to try new things it exploration content like Bozja which always end in fate grinds