Why does Sage punish you for using your healing spells?

[Packetdancer]

I do agree that it has it obviously has its use for movement involving mechanics, but phlegma is already doing a great job at it

I specifically find Toxicon useful to open up movement windows, or if I've been forced away from a group of enemies due to AoEs, and still want to hit the whole group from a distance. I grant it's technically a DPS loss in a single target situation -- especially when you consider it costs two GCDs to get one Toxicon charge (and one of them isn't even affected by spell speed).

But I stand by my belief that it's got some fairly key uses, and I feel like burning an Addersting is still an improvement over just refreshing Eukrasian Dosis early if you need to move. Which, well, requires you to have an Addersting to burn in the first place.

Now, I will grant that I often cast the barrier on the tank between pulls rather than mid-pull, since it ain't a DPS loss if there's nothing yet to DPS. Or if I don't have any Addersting and mechanics force me into moving more than 5y from the boss (i.e., out of range for Dyskrasia) and Eukrasian Dosis has too much time left to be worth an early refresh, I'll often throw a barrier on the tank while I'm moving (because instant cast), so that it'll turn into an Addersting charge for when I inevitably have to move again later.

(If I'm within range, I grant that two Dyskrasia II -- for 340 damage even on a single target -- is probably a better use of two GCDs than Eukrasia + Eukrasian Diagnosis in order to get a 330 potency Toxicon II down the road.)

Not really which, but rather when. For example during boss transitions

While I agree that "when" is pretty key (see above, about when I tend towards using the barrier and getting Addersting charges), I still think that some healers do have a need for GCD heals as part of their basic healing kit. WHM's lilies being the key example here. (Heck, the lilies are actually a DPS gain in trash pulls, provided you can get Misery fully charged and use it before the trash is dead.)

Now, I grant you that like 80% of the time I am burning a lily between trash pulls even when it's pure overheal, just so that I'm that much closer to Misery (and that's one cast of Holy I'm not spending on a Solace or Rapture instead). So, yes, "when" is important if you're trying to be optimal in your use of your kit... but it's not all of it.

I guess it's just that I feel like "if you're using GCD heals at all, git gud" is advice that is, at best, wildly oversimplified. I think we're largely otherwise on the same page.

[DinahDemiurge]

Yeah, let's have all 4 healers play exactly the same. Just change the names of their skills and make weps look different, right?

[UkcsAlias]

Not really which, but rather when. For example during boss transitions

Good luck healing only during transitions as a WHM. 80%+ of the WHM kit is on the GCD. So you are going to use that to heal. But in most cases this comes down to using abilities that have a high efficiency of healing vs that GCD. Regen being the most efficient here, and having a lot of synergy with heals that the tank can apply to itself.

This is also why the cooldown of her main DPS ability was reduced, it was to allow more time for DPS, and hinder the healing aspect less.

And also, while moving through the dungeon to the next boss, its 10x more efficient to let the tank aggro a lot more enemies, so you just go full healing (and when possible still dps - although it will be quite limited), while your 2 DPS use AOE's for clearing. If you wouldnt use any GCD as WHM, you otherwise would probably end up taking a lot more time to finish a dungeon.

This is why WHM is also considered a bit easier, its because nearly everything is on the GCD. There is not a lot of watching for extra cooldowns to end, and if there is, its usualy for situational abilities.

Saying that a WHM should avoid GCD heals, is extremely bad advise. A WHM should nearly always have a regen active on the tank when the tank is in combat, and apply extra heals in case his health is running somewhat low. You are a healer! keep that in mind. Its your task to keep the tank alive, and if your heals enable to tank to take a bigger beating to grant your DPS to take out 8 enemies at once instead of 4, thats a major efficiency increase for the team. Your WHM damage is still low, so if that can be compensated away to a DPS, thats recommended.

The best advise for a WHM would be that the WHM should avoid trying to overheal a target using the GCD directly, overhealing should be done using medica 2 or regen, as they do apply a long passive heal that enables you to use the GCD for damage dealing. So his statement of 'which' is 100% correct.

[Mimilu]

I know there's a chance this is a troll post but on the off chance it's not and/or someone takes it seriously:

- While you should always have it up, Kardia is NOT your main source of healing as a SGE.

-For all healers in general , your main source of healing should be your abilities/oGCDs. Casting healing spells should be a last resort when you don't have anymore cooldowns (with a few exceptions).

-Despite being called "Barrier" or "Shield" Healers, both SGE and SCH should not be spamming shield spells. Starting out, you can use them as a bit of a safety net but once you are more familiar with healing and playing that specific healer, you will rarely use your shield spells during fights.

-For SGE, you should be placing Eukrasian Diagnosis on the tank during the initial pull (while also either spamming Dryskaria or Eurkasian Dosis) and once they have stopped (hopefully at a wall), use Krasis + Physis, followed by Kerachole. These three abilities have such short cooldowns, that they should be available every pull (and maybe even a second time during the same pull). You can use Taurochole once Kerachole's effect is about to end because both effects overwrite each other. You should then be using Haima/Panhaima (again, never together), Holos, Pneuma, Zoe, Druochole, and Soteria when needed (making sure to space out your cooldown uses so you don't blow them all at once).

[Komarimono]

I've found Sage easier to heal and DPS then my SCH. Ya get to toss out very quick shields, faster then any other healer ever could, while doing 3 forms of AoE damage for wall to wall pulling, and can keep the tank topped off with mostly just Kardia when it comes to bosses, tossing out a Dru or Ixo as needed to keep MP up while keeping Kera on cooldown. But gotta remember, there was a stat squish, and some lower level dungeons in roullette the tanks want to chain pull but not use CD's, then ya can cheat and just spam Eukrasia into Dia and easy peasy, not many healer can spam heal like that with a buffer, while moving...

Let us not forget, Soteria(Makes Kardia heal more)+Physis or Krasis? Ya.. Tanks not gonna take much damage as your doing AoE damage, not that I've seen at least.

[Sathona]

So this is how someone who doesnt understand Sage is like?

[Komarimono]

So this is how someone who doesnt understand Sage is like?

To be fair, it depends on what healers they are used to. If you played SCH a lot, you adapt fairly quickly to SGE imho. If you relied on WHM with Bene, Assize and the 0GCD for feed the blood lily, things may seem very off to you.

[Fukuro]

I feel you OP, at this point I only queue with my warrior friend or else tanks just die instantly from how low kardion heal is. Like at least astro gets diurnal sect. Add in the fact that soteria is way too short and you just have these weird chunks of your rotation where you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Eukrasian Prognosis should grant regen if they're gonna drop the ball after they FINALLY make a new healer class all these years >_>

I think it is perfectly fine(it needs minor tweaks here and there). It‘s a shield healer, and plays a lot like Scholar and I love it that way. I recommend everyone coming from WHM & AST to look up a healing guide for Sage. It plays differently than a pure healer.


Here is a good healing guide for dungeons:
https://youtu.be/UPjdwUgwncI

[AnnRam]

I haven't heal in ages, but as a SGE I perform better than 90% of people who can't even heal other alliances, not even in frontlines.

Sage its probably the most active healer in the game in terms of gameplay.

[Ardeth]

Grain of salt as I only got Sage to 71, but how Eukraisa interacts with spells is cool I find it annoying busy work while playing. Eventually I will get used to it, but it seems like the base spells are shit without it which begs the question as to why I even have them as base abilities if they suck so much, but again I've done like two dungeons and it hasn't felt good to play.