Summoner Quality Of Life

[Mansion]

I'm loving it to, but it NEEDS Potency buffs bad.

Does it? It has almost as much mobility than ranged physical DPS, but arguably these three jobs have a more "complex" rotation, at least Bard and Dancer do. Can't say for Machinist as I don't really know about it.

I have mained SMN in Stormblood and Shadowbringers, I just finished leveling it yesterday and I don't like it. It's my opinion, and as you say I just won't play it. But I don't think it should have better single target damage than it currently has. It used to be powerful (maybe overpowered sometimes I will agree) and it had great mobility but still had a clunky rotation with several micro managements going on which, at least for me, justified it's great damage output and skill ceiling.
Currently, there isn't any reason for SMN to be able to do great damage, virtually be as mobile as a ranged phys, have a raise and buff the party, while keeping a very simple rotation of "press these 3 buttons that light up".
A minor DPS buff is fine. But I don't think it should rival with other jobs that have more complexity to them. They should either increase the skill ceiling, or give it more support options. As of today, I think the job goes a bit everywhere with no real consistency, which is a lot to say about SMN when it had that very same problem on another level with its multi-gimmicks flow before (Aetherstacks, DoTs, Pet management, Trance management, ghosting issues, mobility planning).

[Daralii]

Does it? It has almost as much mobility than ranged physical DPS, but arguably these three jobs have a more "complex" rotation, at least Bard and Dancer do. Can't say for Machinist as I don't really know about it.

I have mained SMN in Stormblood and Shadowbringers, I just finished leveling it yesterday and I don't like it. It's my opinion, and as you say I just won't play it. But I don't think it should have better single target damage than it currently has. It used to be powerful (maybe overpowered sometimes I will agree) and it had great mobility but still had a clunky rotation with several micro managements going on which, at least for me, justified it's great damage output and skill ceiling.
Currently, there isn't any reason for SMN to be able to do great damage, virtually be as mobile as a ranged phys, have a raise and buff the party, while keeping a very simple rotation of "press these 3 buttons that light up".
A minor DPS buff is fine. But I don't think it should rival with other jobs that have more complexity to them. They should either increase the skill ceiling, or give it more support options. As of today, I think the job goes a bit everywhere with no real consistency, which is a lot to say about SMN when it had that very same problem on another level with its multi-gimmicks flow before (Aetherstacks, DoTs, Pet management, Trance management, ghosting issues, mobility planning).

Yoshida said in an interview around the time of the media tour that the only reason SMN still has Resurrection is that they weren't sure the job would be balanced on release. It definitely needs potency buffs if that's the end goal.

[dinnertime]

Does it? (Needs Potecncy buffs)

Yes, badly. It's the 2nd worst-performing DPS in the game.

I feel like they didn't take account the damage old SMN does in the background (DoTs and pet auto attacks) with this rework.

[Mansion]

Yes, badly. It's the 2nd worst-performing DPS in the game.

I feel like they didn't take account the damage old SMN does in the background (DoTs and pet auto attacks) with this rework.

There will always be low-performing DPS jobs compared to others, that's not a point in the current design. I'm repeating myself but as it stands, I don't think SMN shouldn't do much more DPS than Bard or Dancer, especially when balancing it with RDM (as BLM is a different type of job).
Sure difficulty might have some subjectivity to it, but I don't think SMN should hit as hard as RDM currently does when RDM isn't as mobile, and has more depth to its rotation and optimization than SMN (and RDM isn't that deep either, mind you). I don't think it'd be fair that in a Savage environment if an "easy" job would hit harder than a more complex job twhen both are played optimally. That actually was SMN's problem in 5.0, it was harder to optimize (due to clunky gameplay) and it performed poorly DPS-wise, before 5.1 addressed this issue (and it was the same early Sotrmblood too I think). I see people saying having an "easy" job outDPSing a "harder" job isn't an issue, I don't agree at all. Rewarding great DPS performance through overly-simple gameplay is a gateway to jobs getting more and more similar and easy with no flavour, identity or anything.

SMN should have tweaks in its rotation to get a higher skill ceiling that would justify a DPS buff in my opinion, which wouldn't be very complex to implement. Toning down the instant casts for Bahamut for instance. Making the SMN Primal choice according to the fight mechanics much more rewarding, introducing more micro-management (for aetherstacks and Ruin IV for instance). I see a lot of room for SMN to grow to keep it attractive and easy to understand and play casually, but offering more depth in end-game content.

[Absimiliard]

especially when balancing it with RDM.

RDM has picked up a fairly significant amount of complexity since its inception. It is no longer the "new player" spellcasting job, and its utility is largely non-existent outside of like the first month of progression. SMN now fills the niche RDM once did, while RDM has largely graduated to proper DPS. Bearing this in mind, why should it have any bearing on what they do with SMN going forward?

[Mansion]

RDM has picked up a fairly significant amount of complexity since its inception. It is no longer the "new player" spellcasting job, and its utility is largely non-existent outside of like the first month of progression. SMN now fills the niche RDM once did, while RDM has largely graduated to proper DPS. Bearing this in mind, why should it have any bearing on what they do with SMN going forward?

I was just using RDM as a caster role, as SMN won't be balanced against BLM.
I get what you mean but I'll just add RDM has gained skill ceiling (which is all I wished for really), but not complexity in its rotation per se. I think ShB was a terrible iteration of RDM because we had an illusion ok skill ceiling with the 110 / 120 rotation because of the manafication recast change and "should I use Reprise?", that's about it. I think StB RDM was more complex just for its proc management that included Impact (but let's not derail!) I think RDM is in a good spot now, and so is SMN in pure damage metrics, relatively speaking. I'm curious about figures for a fight where enrage will matter though, as it isn't the case in the two extremes we currently have.

Back to SMN, sure it has an easy rotation now, and in itself it isn't that much of an issue. But the mobility / lower skill ceiling compared to RDM (and other phys ranged to be fair) shouldn't be rewarded with high damage on top of all the advantages SMN currently has. But I guess it is easier to bring SMN closer to RDM damage wise than redesigning the job to better reward optimal play.

[DES_VII]

Back to SMN, sure it has an easy rotation now, and in itself it isn't that much of an issue. But the mobility / lower skill ceiling compared to RDM (and other phys ranged to be fair) shouldn't be rewarded with high damage on top of all the advantages SMN currently has. But I guess it is easier to bring SMN closer to RDM damage wise than redesigning the job to better reward optimal play.

Sure its easier, I find the rotation fun some find it boring but most are positive on it. But we didn't ask for the job to be like this, its not players fault. And that does not justify as a Caster with RDM/BLM we should be as low as the job is. Just near a bit or under RDM. BLM always top, RDM next and SMN under a bit.
I personally love the redesign and glad they did it over what it once was. Also not 6min long rotation pet AI etc. I enjoy this way over its previous iterations.

[Super_Smiley]

One thing I overlooked was Energy Drain and Energy Siphon. Could these be changed from ability to spell? So they can be effect by spell speed materia and so their recast timers align with other recast timers.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

RDM has picked up a fairly significant amount of complexity since its inception. It is no longer the "new player" spellcasting job, and its utility is largely non-existent outside of like the first month of progression. SMN now fills the niche RDM once did, while RDM has largely graduated to proper DPS. Bearing this in mind, why should it have any bearing on what they do with SMN going forward?

The problem is right now is smn doesn't have a place in raiding groups. RDM can do the same job as smn and do it much better. This issue isn't about complexity or anything like that. The issue is rdm can do both prog and speedruns better than smn right now. RDM is having its cake and eating it too since it has high damage, great untility, and can rez a whole party during prog. At least rdm had a place in SB and ShB as the better prog caster but now it's the better prog caster and the better speedrunner, leaving nothing for smn at all. I guess you and the others are fine with smn mains being kicked from parties and stuff. You ppl make so angry because you are just bias and don't want balance.