Endwalker White Mage has Issues

[Ryme]

Cleared first savage fight and working on second atm. Melded piety out of my ears and I couldve probably not (858pie) but keeping it for now until I start upgrading gear. There is very little back to back damage and my cohealer Sage shits out heals while keeping dps up. Lilybell is useful and feels very made for specific mechanics that coincidentally pop around 3 minutes after eachother....hmmmm....
I havent needed to use any liles so far. Lucid is on cooldown and I have emergency superethers just in case but unless I die there really isnt a problem at my piety level. Ofcourse the first fight is never really demanding once you learn the mechanics but honestly so far I see little reason to bring "strong" healers. I think SE needs to rethink healer design or fight design. Neither me or cohealer needed to use any gcd heals once we knew what to do. Group handles mitigation. Tanks are stupid strong. Damage is so spread out.....

This basically solidifies in my mind that the devs don't really have any idea what to do with healers. Making fights easier to heal if not a good direction to go. It doesn't benefit healers at all and just pushes them closer and closer to being worse dps. As if that wasn't already not great, creating abilities as specific solution to specific mechanics in fights, or worse, and probably more likely, designing fights to make poorly conceived overly niche abilities good is objectively bad game design. I'm not trying to be overly negative but I was really worried they were going in this direction with Lilybell and it seems my concerns were justified. This kind of design, that is designing specific solutions to specific problems instead of creating an array of tools for the player to use as they see fit to overcome challenges, is how you kill class diversity. I really hope we don't see any more abilities like Lilybell for any class and that lilybell is reworked to be a general tool instead of a specific solution.

[LuciaMirain]

And same deal with second fight. We are at third fight now and have reached a part where we have to discuss mitigation a bit more but the boss actually is untargetable during small parts so I waste my lilies there for misery.

[LuciaMirain]

This basically solidifies in my mind that the devs don't really have any idea what to do with healers. Making fights easier to heal if not a good direction to go. It doesn't benefit healers at all and just pushes them closer and closer to being worse dps. As if that wasn't already not great, creating abilities as specific solution to specific mechanics in fights, or worse, and probably more likely, designing fights to make poorly conceived overly niche abilities good is objectively bad game design. I'm not trying to be overly negative but I was really worried they were going in this direction with Lilybell and it seems my concerns were justified. This kind of design, that is designing specific solutions to specific problems instead of creating an array of tools for the player to use as they see fit to overcome challenges, is how you kill class diversity. I really hope we don't see any more abilities like Lilybell for any class and that lilybell is reworked to be a general tool instead of a specific solution.

I am getting close to kill on the third fight now and so far you still do not need a single gcd to clear and we ARE sharing heals while team mitigates. The third fight even has downtime to rapidly spend lilies for a misery without dps loss. The "bleed aoe mechanics" where lilybell is massively useful are 3 minutes apart so in my eyes they definitely designed lilybell for those specific encounters. I will say there is a part that has heavy incoming back to back damage but lilybell just negates it in a silly way almost. I STILL think it needs to proc on anyteammember and have a shorter cooldown. But in savage so far? Massively useful.

[RinaShinomiya]

Apparently patch 6.08 will have more job tuning. Here is to hope WHM receives something. I'd settle for 10% MP on assize and 30 potency extra on misery just give us something.
Unfortunately YoshiP only talked about DPS and PLD when talking about 6.08 so it's probably best to expect nothing at this point.

[LuciaMirain]

Apparently patch 6.08 will have more job tuning. Here is to hope WHM receives something. I'd settle for 10% MP on assize and 30 potency extra on misery just give us something.
Unfortunately YoshiP only talked about DPS and PLD when talking about 6.08 so it's probably best to expect nothing at this point.

Yeah I expect nothing. I ended up clearing panda 3 savage thos evening and I decided to be safe and overheal just to clear. But I think you can basically get away without using lilies more than 2-3 times after tornadoes.

[Phoen1x]

I’m a WHM main since ARR, and I do find that WHM is less thought about compared to other jobs. It’s been kicked out of Meta for multiple expansions since AST was introduced. To compensate lack of utility, we were given the damage contribution instead, however raid groups will always take a healer that buffs a party… increased overall party DPS is always better than an individual putting out a slightly higher DPS.
This can be seen in the first clears of this raid tier. AST and SCH were taken over WHM and SGE.

I’ve done P1S, i have a SGE for a healing partner. It’s the first time since ARR where another healer job has been above me in DPS. No matter how many glares I do, the SGE can cast more than I can in a fight, even when being less active. They are way above me (all be it i’m not overmelded either but still). Is this down to how quick it’s casts ? The number of OGCDs it has? Or that it doesn’t need to worry about mana management at all?

IMO WHM needs to be balanced to match SGEs healing and DPS capability. They should be on parr with each other at least. SGE is on top for both at the moment. WHMs mana regen is also needed to be looked at - you know it’s a DPS loss when you need to start melding PIE just to make things more comfortable.

I love lilybel. It’s great on bleeds and multiple AoE hits. Maybe having a shorter cool down may help? Or have it do damage as well as heals?

WHM needs something just to make it as desirable as other jobs, I love its not changed to much… but it just needs something.

[LuciaMirain]

And Ive started progging p4s and jesus lord is WHM bad for it. Imagine having to drop it because AST is so much better for that fight since WHM HAS to do multiple gcd heals so the party doesnt die in the first 3 minutes of the fight. How bad is that? I am not enjoying this. I dont know how to play AST well.

[EaMett]

And Ive started progging p4s and jesus lord is WHM bad for it. Imagine having to drop it because AST is so much better for that fight since WHM HAS to do multiple gcd heals so the party doesnt die in the first 3 minutes of the fight. How bad is that? I am not enjoying this. I dont know how to play AST well.

AST is pretty amazing for the p4s fights.

[LuciaMirain]

AST is pretty amazing for the p4s fights.

Yeah, after having massive anxiety I started to get the hang of when to use my tools, I even started to enjoy it a bit. I did msq on AST so I had SOME sense of it but it felt so buttonbloated that I left it for WHM. But WHM was just not good for this encounter. We are doing it blind as well so this is going to take a while. But I am sad that WHM feels so bad this expansion that I actually had to drop it. That is not good jobdesign.

[Liam_Harper]

And Ive started progging p4s and jesus lord is WHM bad for it. Imagine having to drop it because AST is so much better for that fight since WHM HAS to do multiple gcd heals so the party doesnt die in the first 3 minutes of the fight. How bad is that? I am not enjoying this. I dont know how to play AST well.

This is true. WHM is (predictably) the most popular healer even in Savage if you look at the overall statistics. It's literally twice as popular as AST on the first boss (which coincidentally barely needs any healing).

However, from p3 onwards it changes significantly with WHM being roughly on par with SCH and AST for usage. On p4s it falls behind SCH and on part II barely keeps up with AST. It's also the least represented in speed kills for all bosses. That might change later once gear makes the heal checks easier, but it seems when content actually requires serious healing, WHM is simply a bad class.

I'm not surprised at all. Not only does AST pack ridiculous amounts of oGCD's and free healing, those abilities are also much better than what WHM has. AST has access to 10% mitigation on half the cd that Temperance has, has Neutral for even more mitigation and Macrocosmos simply deletes mechanics. AST GCD's are also equal to WHM and cheaper on a class with infinite mana. All WHM has is Cure III and Bene memes.