Endwalker White Mage has Issues

[Hysterior]

OK... I really expected some potency and MP recovery changes at least... ouch...

[Semirhage]

Just keep it simple! It has to be simple. Don't expect anything, it's supposed to be simple! It's so good that WHM is simple. So what if it's numerically behind all three other healers and has no utility, maybe it just needs a few little potency bumps and then it's perfect! Casting glare a million times is such good game design. I love that it's so S I M P L E.

I'm telling you all for the thousandth time, WHM is going to be a craptastic garbage can tier class until they abandon this horrible design direction. Mark my words, -this- is all you're gonna get so long as you hear HURRR SIMPLE and WHM in the same sentence.

[Ryme]

Just keep it simple! It has to be simple. Don't expect anything, it's supposed to be simple! It's so good that WHM is simple. So what if it's numerically behind all three other healers and has no utility, maybe it just needs a few little potency bumps and then it's perfect! Casting glare a million times is such good game design. I love that it's so S I M P L E.

I'm telling you all for the thousandth time, WHM is going to be a craptastic garbage can tier class until they abandon this horrible design direction. Mark my words, -this- is all you're gonna get so long as you hear HURRR SIMPLE and WHM in the same sentence.

Yeah, while I understand the frustration I have to disagree with this sentiment. As people in this thread and other (on this website or otherwise) have displayed, whm can be simple while being engaging and well designed. Now at this point you may very well be correct that this kind of treatment is all we can expect but, the fact whm that is being neglected has nothing, inherently, to do with it being simple, and is just incompetence on the side of the devs. Incompetence born from their belief that it must be simple maybe, but incompetence none the less.

[Semirhage]

Yeah, while I understand the frustration I have to disagree with this sentiment. As people in this thread and other (on this website or otherwise) have displayed, whm can be simple while being engaging and well designed. Now at this point you may very well be correct that this kind of treatment is all we can expect but, the fact whm that is being neglected has nothing, inherently, to do with it being simple, and is just incompetence on the side of the devs. Incompetence born from their belief that it must be simple maybe, but incompetence none the less.

A class can absolutely be both simple and engaging.

But not in the healer role. Because if one job is simple and competitive, and the others are complex and competitive, mains of the complex jobs wail and screech and gnash their teeth until the Simple Fisher Price Healer For Babies is explicitly weaker than they are, because they "deserve" more output to go along with having a crapload of utility and actually engaging kits.

This spiral is the trap the healer role has looped itself into. I don't see how it's possible that for some reason the healer role is the only one of the three with a population so brainrotted that they can't manage more than the arduous task of managing awful barebones simplicity. Because that's what "simple" boils always down to. Glare spamming. It's so "fun"!

[Ryme]

A class can absolutely be both simple and engaging.

But not in the healer role. Because if one job is simple and competitive, and the others are complex and competitive, mains of the complex jobs wail and screech and gnash their teeth until the Simple Fisher Price Healer For Babies is explicitly weaker than they are, because they "deserve" more output to go along with having a crapload of utility and actually engaging kits.

This spiral is the trap the healer role has looped itself into. I don't see how it's possible that for some reason the healer role is the only one of the three with a population so brainrotted that they can't manage more than the arduous task of managing awful barebones simplicity. Because that's what "simple" boils always down to. Glare spamming. It's so "fun"!

I understand where you are coming from, I think we are just coming at it from different angels. Personally, whm's competitiveness is not a big deal to me, it would be neat if it was the best healer but, to me, that's all it would be, neat. Whm isn't even that far behind the other healers atm dps wise, despite having the lowest "rdps," based on fflogs data its less than 5% behind sage (the highest dps). To me whm being simple but engaging and whm being competitive are independent things. I actually do think that the more complex healers should have a little bit more dps and utility for the extra effort that is put in, that makes sense to me. My problem is the lack of care with whm, even in a vacuum whm feels bad right now and it doesn't need to, because (again to me) it doesn't need to be the best to be a well designed job.

[LuciaMirain]

Just keep it simple! It has to be simple. Don't expect anything, it's supposed to be simple! It's so good that WHM is simple. So what if it's numerically behind all three other healers and has no utility, maybe it just needs a few little potency bumps and then it's perfect! Casting glare a million times is such good game design. I love that it's so S I M P L E.

I'm telling you all for the thousandth time, WHM is going to be a craptastic garbage can tier class until they abandon this horrible design direction. Mark my words, -this- is all you're gonna get so long as you hear HURRR SIMPLE and WHM in the same sentence.

I still wonder how making thin air stacks is making it more simple? How is it EASIER to have to press that extra button to raise someone and then another? I don't get it. I feel like it is an intended nerf to make WHM play with their mp more. It feels dumb but I keep etherpots just in case I die during prog. It works wonders but I mean...that is just such poor gamedesign.

[Mortex]

I understand where you are coming from, I think we are just coming at it from different angels. Personally, whm's competitiveness is not a big deal to me, it would be neat if it was the best healer but, to me, that's all it would be, neat. Whm isn't even that far behind the other healers atm dps wise, despite having the lowest "rdps," based on fflogs data its less than 5% behind sage (the highest dps). To me whm being simple but engaging and whm being competitive are independent things. I actually do think that the more complex healers should have a little bit more dps and utility for the extra effort that is put in, that makes sense to me. My problem is the lack of care with whm, even in a vacuum whm feels bad right now and it doesn't need to, because (again to me) it doesn't need to be the best to be a well designed job.

Well yea he’s 5 % behind but even on that regard the best sage log has a whm with in the group that deals less dmg then sage and has also less healing because whm still has the worst ogcd tools for any situation. In short sage deals more dmg then the pure dmg regen healer and has actually better regen skills then a regen healer.

[RinaShinomiya]

In short sage deals more dmg then the pure dmg regen healer and has actually better regen skills then a regen healer.

The curse of barrier healers and pure healers being defined by the GCD's they dont use. WHM also does more single target barriers than barrier healers. Great class design.

[Mortex]

The curse of barrier healers and pure healers being defined by the GCD's they dont use. WHM also does more single target barriers than barrier healers. Great class design.

and thats the answer you need, Job design team has no clue how too design healer

[Ryme]

Well yea he’s 5 % behind but even on that regard the best sage log has a whm with in the group that deals less dmg then sage and has also less healing because whm still has the worst ogcd tools for any situation. In short sage deals more dmg then the pure dmg regen healer and has actually better regen skills then a regen healer.

Absolutely, and I was in no way implying that sage isn't a little over tuned. Actually that was part of my point, sage is over tuned when compared to the other healers, to just about the same degree that paladin was under tuned (pre 6.08) when compared to the other tanks. Even still the difference between it and whm (who has the lowest rdps) is only around 5%, which really isn't very much of a spread between an over tuned high and a low within a job category. Of course that is just damage and is just an example that "number" wise healer are relatively balanced, with the real issues being in design.