Current EX trial completed without Healers

[Sebazy]

I agree, but current content requires 2 full healers for sloppy groups. If you dialed back the healing throughput, then many people couldn't finish content as currently tuned, which is apparently Square's primary concern. Optimized healers are just not a concern.

Eeeh, 2 is a stretch, as AST at least, both primals are a doddle to solo heal even with deaths and Vulnerability stacks

[BaconBits]

YoshiP has already said that healers will never get more involved damage rotations, as poor players could be criticized for not doing enough damage on what is supposed to be a healing role.

I don't know that healing is very interesting for tanks; a lot of it is incidental to their play.

With that kind of logic they might as well simplify all roles down to that level, not just healers. Give all tanks a single target attack, an aoe, and a boat load of tank cooldowns that go largely unused in most content. Give DPS a single button that does both single target and aoe damage, and have all their abilities activate automatically, no need to align raid buffs with one another any more. And give all healers a spammable assize with no cooldown and a 100 yalm radius that extends beyond any arena. That way poor players can finally focus on the fight itself and not have to worry about disappointing their peers or being judged.

At least until they manage to find new methods to fail catastrophically anyways.

[Mortex]

I wonder just how low healing requirements would have to get before current healer design white knights would actually admit that healing gameplay is designed poorly?

Because apparently five whole unavoidable raidwides in an entire "extreme" encounter you can cover with dancer heals isn't down there yet.

Enjoy casting one spell over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, I can't imagine calling this slop "good design".

I mean they didn’t care even when people cleared eden 4 savage with no healer. Like how worse can it get before you realize there is no new worse.

[Mortex]

YoshiP has already said that healers will never get more involved damage rotations, as poor players could be criticized for not doing enough damage on what is supposed to be a healing role.

I don't know that healing is very interesting for tanks; a lot of it is incidental to their play.

I mean some healer player already don’t dps with two buttons. Do you actually think they care if they have 5 or 10 more buttons for dps, the only people you enrage with that are healer vets that have to buy 3 keyboards every expansion because the 1 key breaks after 1 raid tier ( true story for me but only 1 new keyboard after 3 raid tiers). I even did all trial fights in shadowbringer as a solo healer if I could and they still bored the crap out of me. I’m a meele in this expansion in my static and I still could heal the first ex trial solo as sage ( with 3 rezzes) and I was still bored too death.

[Connor]

I just don’t get anything the devs do anymore.

They act like healers will be desperately struggling to keep even a sliver of the party’s HP up, then release content that literally doesn’t even need them?
They act like the healer role is some extremely stressful, infinitely pressured job…then give the majority of dps and all four tanks powerful healing and defense cool downs? How can healers be so pressured by healing when Dancers/Reapers/Paladins/Warriors can do it all for them?

We aren’t allowed to have buffs or support gcds to manage or use, we aren’t allowed to have anything to heal, we aren’t allowed to do big shiny dps moves that are actually fun to use…what do they think is left?

And this is from the kind of person who honestly would be happy if we used Physick as many times as we use Broil IV now (replace heal with dps equivalent based on class lol). I genuinely enjoy having to manage healing gcds, mp, party/single target buffs. But the game literally doesn’t cater to any of us anymore. If you like being a healer that focuses on dps you’re out of luck. If you like being a healer that focuses on buffs or supporting the party, you’re out of luck. The best we get is a role that has nothing to heal, next to nothing to dps or support with, and can’t even do things that other roles can’t

[HappyHubris]

Eeeh, 2 is a stretch, as AST at least, both primals are a doddle to solo heal even with deaths and Vulnerability stacks

I said "for sloppy groups." My point is that the game is designed for people who struggle to not get too taxed, not for the type of people who are interested enough to post on the healer forums.

For a lot of players, non-extreme primals require 2 heals and everyone still barely survives.

[Hellebore_Ghrian]

The best we get is a role that has nothing to heal, next to nothing to dps or support with, and can’t even do things that other roles can’t

I would translate that by the role came down from "keep the party alive" to "make up for others' mistakes".

[Marxam]

Honestly content at the start of expansions is normally undertuned to help facilitate the learnign process with new jobs/changes. Trials being done without healers is nothing new. Heck, even E4S was doen without healers and only smns for the phoenix regens. Ppl need to just chill for a sec.

[Saefinn]

YoshiP has already said that healers will never get more involved damage rotations, as poor players could be criticized for not doing enough damage on what is supposed to be a healing role.

I don't know that healing is very interesting for tanks; a lot of it is incidental to their play.

I know he has, but basically they either can make the content suit the kit or the kit to suit the content. The problem with ShB was that they did not fit together, because the content said "DPS more" but the kit was better designed for a stronger healing requirement.

And it's not like YoshiP hasn't changed his mind before in light of community feedback. That said, I think I'd prefer the balance to be more in favour of healing more. But if we /must/ follow a 30:70 ratio of healingPS in most content like in Endwalker then give us more better DPS options. Though my general argument has been a mix of the two, so the entry barrier to healing remains low. SGE seems like it might be a good middle ground, but time will tell.

[Naizakane]

I have some questions

Was this clear in a group of organised players, for example a static? I’d find it hard to believe a random pug could clear without healers.

Also it seems that ex trials have been getting easier and easier since Stormblood with the only exception being the WoL trial - I’ve not done any of the ex trials - are they easy?

The step from Ex to Savage is usually quite big so if you will be able to clear the new savages comfortably without healers then that will be a big worry and possibly an indication that SE may want to remove the role entirely in the future.

No one seems to have answered you yet, so I'll give the best answers I can.

First, yes. This clear was in a group of organised players, I'd say a static as the video of the clear has voice chat in it.

Second, any fight in the game is easy after you've done it enough times. Something like this clear must have taken a good amount of practice and planning. As for your concern that SE may want to remove the healer role, I think they've had plenty of time to consider that after a seperate co-ordinated group cleared E4S with 2 Paladins, 1 Dancer and 5 Summoners.