Healers, not required. (EW SPOILERS)

[Packetdancer]

They need to go back to the Damage Down debuffs instead of the Vulnerability up debuffs. Stop punishing healers for other players mistakes.

I am fervently hoping that the savage tier continues to use damage down; it was refreshing to see DPS actually care about doing mechanics properly.

Though I admit, I actually rather liked the Delubrum Reginae "Twice-Come Ruin" (or the savage variant's "Thrice-Come Ruin"). It was forgiving -- screw up a mechanic and you were put on probation rather than instantly vuln stack'd or damage down'd. But repeatedly mess up a mechanic and you just plain died. No "the healer should've healed me through this", you just get Doom and you're gone.

It was like the perfect combination -- to my taste, at least -- of forgiving ("Okay, you screwed this up once; you're on probation, buddy") and unforgiving ("Welp, you die now.").

[Daralii]

I am fervently hoping that the savage tier continues to use damage down; it was refreshing to see DPS actually care about doing mechanics properly.

Though I admit, I actually rather liked the Delubrum Reginae "Twice-Come Ruin" (or the savage variant's "Thrice-Come Ruin"). It was forgiving -- screw up a mechanic and you were put on probation rather than instantly vuln stack'd or damage down'd. But repeatedly mess up a mechanic and you just plain died. No "the healer should've healed me through this", you just get Doom and you're gone.

It was like the perfect combination -- to my taste, at least -- of forgiving ("Okay, you screwed this up once; you're on probation, buddy") and unforgiving ("Welp, you die now.").

Considering they reused Twice-Come Ruin for the second part of E12S, I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up at some point in Pandaemonium savage.

[Packetdancer]

Considering they reused Twice-Come Ruin for the second part of E12S, I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up at some point in Pandaemonium savage.

I think the debuff in E10S that turned into Doom if you screwed up voidgates was actually also Twice-Come Ruin, though I might be misremembering. So, yeah, I fully expect it to show up in Pandaemonium savage at some point, even if it doesn't in this specific tier.

But in both E10S and E12S, it was in response to a specific mechanic being failed; in Delubrum Reginae it was to any mechanic being failed, so functionally taking the place of vuln stacks (as used in most content) or damage down (as used in Eden savage).

[Saraide]

I am fervently hoping that the savage tier continues to use damage down; it was refreshing to see DPS actually care about doing mechanics properly.

Though I admit, I actually rather liked the Delubrum Reginae "Twice-Come Ruin" (or the savage variant's "Thrice-Come Ruin"). It was forgiving -- screw up a mechanic and you were put on probation rather than instantly vuln stack'd or damage down'd. But repeatedly mess up a mechanic and you just plain died. No "the healer should've healed me through this", you just get Doom and you're gone.

It was like the perfect combination -- to my taste, at least -- of forgiving ("Okay, you screwed this up once; you're on probation, buddy") and unforgiving ("Welp, you die now.").

If I remember correctly twice come ruin in delubrum also gave a damage down according to the tooltip on the debuff but I have no idea how much.

[Packetdancer]

If I remember correctly twice come ruin in delubrum also gave a damage down according to the tooltip on the debuff but I have no idea how much.

Hrm. I don't remember it doing so, but I'll be honest that I'm not absolutely certain of that. I'm mostly certain it didn't in Eden savage -- you got the damage down debuff independently of Twice-Come Ruin if you screwed up a mechanic, I seem to recall -- and I assumed they'd just literally used the same debuff. But like I said, I may be mistaken.

I am like 98% positive that Thrice-Come Ruin in Delubrum savage didn't, but maybe that was only because it didn't have a timer. (I.e., you only got to screw up twice, period, across an entire fight before it just nuked you.)

[Dogempire]

I am fervently hoping that the savage tier continues to use damage down; it was refreshing to see DPS actually care about doing mechanics properly.

Though I admit, I actually rather liked the Delubrum Reginae "Twice-Come Ruin" (or the savage variant's "Thrice-Come Ruin"). It was forgiving -- screw up a mechanic and you were put on probation rather than instantly vuln stack'd or damage down'd. But repeatedly mess up a mechanic and you just plain died. No "the healer should've healed me through this", you just get Doom and you're gone.

It was like the perfect combination -- to my taste, at least -- of forgiving ("Okay, you screwed this up once; you're on probation, buddy") and unforgiving ("Welp, you die now.").

I'd argue that twice come ruin was lazy and ruined Delubrum because it killed all options but pure damage builds, it would make sense if it was on certain mechanics but it was on literally everything including the most mundane attacks from the trash minibosses.

The debuff was less of a punishment for messing up mechanics and more like if a GM used the console to force kill you because you messed up.