Endwalker's message (spoilers!)

[crimsonwitch]

Endwalker follows through on that by confirming that Venat was far too hasty to pull the trigger and never gave her people a fair chance due to being an unhinged saboteur and abusive mother figure with delusions of godhood. In the end, as Meteion confirms, the answer to Hermes' question lay on the Star all along. We know the Ancients were capable of friendship and exploration, so nothing the Sundered did is anything that the Ancients themselves could not have done had they been given the possibility.

I rather suspect that Venat being very pretty will also factor into the eagerness for many to rush to defend her, though. Much in the same way as how Meteion has her hand held because she took the form of a little girl...whereas many of the male antagonists, no matter how sympathetic, simply end up getting a stoic nod or frown. Funny, that!

Not understanding your point.. What did you expect her to do? Expose Hermes in front of Emet and Hythlodaeus who lost their memories ? Tell all of the ancients that Hermes created a monstrosity that is now far away in the galaxy?
I think the ancients might've thought she lost her mind and needed to return to the earth then. EVEN back then dynamis(the emotional aether) was a concept they didn't know much about. They wouldn't have believed Meteion was brewing a storm far far away to end the world.

[Theodric]

Not understanding your point.. what did you expect her to do, expose hermes in front of emet and hythlodaeus who lost their memories ? Tell all the ancients that hermes created a monstrosity who is now far away in the galaxy?
I think the ancients might've thought she lost her mind and needed to return to the earth then.

...she had the capability of tracing memories and exposing them, which is precisely what she did during the quests in Elpis with the Warrior of Light. Furthermore, given how tirelessly the likes of Emet-Selch worked towards the goal of saving not only his people but the Star itself, it felt very forced for Venat to not even bother to pull him aside and inform him of what she had learned. The memory wipe only extended within the facility itself, thus Venat could have taken Emet-Selch to a place where he had interacted with the others before entering the facility to ensure her warning carried weight.

...and even if he initially brushed off the warning, when the Final Days began to manifest, would he not then realise that Venat was telling the truth? Let's not forget that Venat's word carries a lot of weight in itself, given that she is a respected figure within the Ancient world.

Much of the story rests on flimsy reasoning which is a shame because Venat went from a very likable and well meaning character during the Elpis arc to one of the most horrid. I think she deserved a better ending than what she's now stuck with. Simply having Venat lose her memory alongside Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus would have worked much more smoothly and made her a more tragic figure than having her deliberately avoid telling anyone anything.

[SamsaraTrickstar]

Did the message of Endwalker really resonate with anyone else? I completed the MSQ a couple of days ago, but I'm still not over the questions it asked and the answers it delivered. I'm not sure if the writers had the fallout of COVID in mind when they wrote the MSQ, but it felt like a clarion call to find hope and meaning in a time of uncertainty, loss and suffering. Meteion's final lines about finding little pieces of happiness, losing them, and repeating the cycle until gentle death (and that's totally fine, because that's what living is) brought tears to my eyes...

Overall, while I was surprisingly less emotional at many points of Endwalker as compared to Shadowbringers, I think its beautiful message is deeply engraved into my heart and I won't forget it any time soon!

God dam you over think it. This was a really badly written story that got some strong moments but mostly was naive. If not the moon bunny's I will even hate it. This was supposed to be an apocalyptic event but it take place in 2 places onlly?

[crimsonwitch]

...she had the capability of tracing memories and exposing them, which is precisely what she did during the quests in Elpis with the Warrior of Light. Furthermore, given how tirelessly the likes of Emet-Selch worked towards the goal of saving not only his people but the Star itself, it felt very forced for Venat to not even bother to pull him aside and inform him of what she had learned. The memory wipe only extended within the facility itself, thus Venat could have taken Emet-Selch to a place where he had interacted with the others before entering the facility to ensure her warning carried weight.

...and even if he initially brushed off the warning, when the Final Days began to manifest, would he not then realise that Venat was telling the truth? Let's not forget that Venat's word carries a lot of weight in itself, given that she is a respected figure within the Ancient world.

Much of the story rests on flimsy reasoning which is a shame because Venat went from a very likable and well meaning character during the Elpis arc to one of the most horrid. I think she deserved a better ending than what she's now stuck with. Simply having Venat lose her memory alongside Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus would have worked much more smoothly and made her a more tragic figure than having her deliberately avoid telling anyone anything.

The problem with this argument is that

A. If she lost her memories to become a tragic hero, she never would’ve become hydaelyn
And
B. If she did solve it all back then with emet and hythlo, we wouldn’t even exist in the game since the world would be whole.
Somebodies lapse of judgement is what lead to our story now. I’m not saying she was good but not completely bad either. sorry you didn’t like the story , but it’s all we got.

[Iscah]

A. If she lost her memories to become a tragic hero, she never would’ve become hydaelyn

I disagree on that front. Prior to this game releasing, we had absolutely no issue with the concept that Venat's team had simply looked at the Convocation's creation of Zodiark, concluded that there was some critical flaw in the design and created Hydaelyn to fix it.

I think the plot would have been neater if Venat had lost her memory along with the others and later created Hydaelyn for her own reasons, not because the mysterious time-traveller said she would. Given the focus on "regaining lost memories upon death and return to the aetherial sea", she likely would have remembered the truth upon becoming Hydaelyn, so the conclusion in the present day would play out the same.

[Lauront]

Did you even watch the cutscenes? Venat DID talk to the other Ancients. Their response was to suicide into Zodiark.

Their plan was also to hide inside Zodiark long enough for him to fix things and then literally decimate every living thing in order to have their own utopia.

I'd have shot them all too. To bury their heads in the sand waiting for someone else to fix their mess and then genocide a planet all for their own arrogance? Yeah, I'm with Venat on this one lol

If you're going to be snide about it, at least make sure you know what you're talking about. She did not speak to them about what happened in Elpis. Based on the scene we're shown, she spouted platitudes while their star was dying - an approach Alphinaud and Alisaie learnt did not go down well in Garlemald. What she categorically did not do is reveal anything that went down in Elpis.

Secondly, the star was dying due to unknown causes, which her own faction was none the wiser to - that is why it was never their intention to remove Zodiark. They too sought to "hide inside" Zodiark, whose mere existence protected the star, because he had bought them time for something that eluded their understanding... but for what happened in Elpis. Enough time for at least 12k years. Hence sundering rather than unmaking him. The star was dying beneath the ancients' very feet, so they sacrificed once to restore it, and then again to restore its growth cycle. There was another planned stage to restore the ancients inside Zodiark, but that came after and was to be enacted using a portion of the newly grown life on the star - never specified what it was, but certainly not every living thing on the planet.

For a mercy, we're rid of her now anyway.

The problem with this argument is that

A. If she lost her memories to become a tragic hero, she never would’ve become hydaelyn
And
B. If she did solve it all back then with emet and hythlo, we wouldn’t even exist in the game since the world would be whole.
Somebodies lapse of judgement is what lead to our story now. I’m not saying she was good but not completely bad either. sorry you didn’t like the story , but it’s all we got.

Yup, I think B is ultimately why the writers chose not to have her do it. But then it all comes down to how they handled it via the time travel plot, so /shrug.

[Larirawiel]

I think, the message is comparable to the message about the paradise in the bible. The races that Meteion met tried to create a kind of a paradise. But when they arrived this goal: an existence without pain and suffering, they got bored and destroyed this paradise/let the paradise be destroyed. Like Adam and Eva did.


Cheers

[Lauront]

And then you have the poor dragons...

[Kozh]

I disagree on that front. Prior to this game releasing, we had absolutely no issue with the concept that Venat's team had simply looked at the Convocation's creation of Zodiark, concluded that there was some critical flaw in the design and created Hydaelyn to fix it.

I think the plot would have been neater if Venat had lost her memory along with the others and later created Hydaelyn for her own reasons, not because the mysterious time-traveller said she would. Given the focus on "regaining lost memories upon death and return to the aetherial sea", she likely would have remembered the truth upon becoming Hydaelyn, so the conclusion in the present day would play out the same.

This is my stance too. Before EW, I never doubt hydaelyn nor hate her. Even when we saw her flashback on anamnesis anyder, I can understand not wanting the cycle of sacrifice to continue. I enjoy solving the mystery in elpis alongside venat, yet the conclusion of Elpis actually makes me dislike her.

[Jennah]

The lesson seems to be "Everyone in the Universe naturally wants to kill themselves".
What.