Endwalker's message (spoilers!)

[Kozh]

Yup, I think B is ultimately why the writers chose not to have her do it. But then it all comes down to how they handled it via the time travel plot, so /shrug.

This is why a story shouldn't have both time loop and multi timeline, because one of them will not make sense.

[Lauront]

This is why a story shouldn't have both time loop and multi timeline, because one of them will not make sense.

Agreed.

So, take the whole game into consideration. This line of reasoning becomes very flimsy. Why? Because the Ancients have the Echo. They can control it at will. Sure, Hyth and Emet had their memories wiped, but if Venat presented herself and said, "Look into my memories, and the memories of the traveler." They would then see and feel exactly what we felt in Ktsis Hyperboreia. They would see and feel the WoL defending Hythlodaeus. They would see Meteion streaking off into the cosmos.

This power that every Ancient possesses is conveniently sidelined in the most egregious way, since Venat makes use of it just a few quests earlier to see Hermes speaking to Meteion about launching her sisters off into the cosmos. They all possess this ability. To see and experience the memories of others through the environment and their living aether. We ourselves have inadvertently used it to resolve earlier plots in the game hundreds of times. Yet in this instance it had to be discarded so that the narrative could be obeyed, while the writers pray that we somehow don't notice it.

It would have been easy to fix. Just have Venat lose her memory and create Hydaelyn completely of her own volition. OR just have her try it, only for something with the Memory Wiping spells impact how her memories are perceived as well, leading to reasonable doubt. They just had to nip this hole in the bud with one or two lines or one extra cutscene, and they did not. It is insulting.

Yep, so at that point you're left with one possible rationale - preservation of the original timeline. They are basically forcing it in that direction and for me, it doesn't help me sympathise with the way she's handling it.

[Tsukino]

I like the part of it where, as rational as despair might sound, no matter how much proof you have that it's right, it's ultimately pointless and hope will win out in the end. I also like the idea that hope is (for Meteion and Hydaelyn specifically) worth waiting thousands of years for.

The part of it about humanity needing to suffer rather than seek harmony in order to persevere, not so much. It's nice that they managed to tie it into 1.x/2.x and the Answers song and all, but the message here kind of sucks.

[RoroCookies]

Someone else brought up in the thread, I don’t remember who otherwise I would quote them. But what really ruined the last zone for me was that not a single society knew about dynamis or was dynamis based instead being aether based. It feels like they just generalized thousands of stars to force them to come to the same conclusion to make Meteion more tragic. I just have a hard time believing that not a single society was capable to fight her off or that all them reached to the idea that dying is the solution.

[Jennah]

Someone else brought up in the thread, I don’t remember who otherwise I would quote them. But what really ruined the last zone for me was that not a single society knew about dynamis or was dynamis based instead being aether based. It feels like they just generalized thousands of stars to force them to come to the same conclusion to make Meteion more tragic. I just have a hard time believing that not a single society was capable to fight her off or that all them reached to the idea that dying is the solution.

Which is ESPECIALLY weird since they said that dynamis was much lower on Etheriys than anywhere else, due to its massive Aether supplies.

Also, considering we figured it out at least twice post-Sundering despite being far less advanced - nobody else seems to know about time travel.
Which, if nothing else, would've greatly helped the planets that were more murdered than suicided.

I couldn’t really get emotional for anything because i knew like, the scions weren’t going to die. It’s why i felt the ending portion where they’re all saying their goodbyes and sacrificing themselves was kind of poor taste. This games theme has always been about sacrifice for the greater good and even this expansions main theme talks about loss, yet that hasn’t applied to the main cast in forever. Hard to get emotional at their goodbyes when i know they’ll be back in 10 mins. I think the only slightest bit of emotion i felt was when we see shiva appear at the final boss of the 89 dungeon and it’s mainly because i thought it was a very creative callback to syrcus tower. I couldn’t really get excited about Zenos because he just had no purpose in the story, but i will say him showing up at the end was kind of an anchor to make the story feel a bit…normal? Because honestly from the moon and onwards the game started feeling like a bad fever dream. Especially post elpis.

I'd put the EXACT moment the expansion storyline lost me as when Meteion delivered her report. Why in the world did Emet-Selch and Hermes get all murderous over if the report needed to be heard RIGHT NOW? I could see Hermes freaking out and protecting her - but unless Emet somehow intuited this was going to be (again, somehow...) universe ending, his actions make zero sense.
And then the rest of it ... well, either one of two things must be true:
a) Every civilization ever naturally commits suicide - and somehow they've all mostly chosen to do so within the same few decades. OR
b) Meteion killed most of those civilizations herself.
If a is true ... wow, someone at Squeenix is a MAJOR pessimist. And if b is true ... it's a big universe. If one single person can end it that easily, why hasn't it ended long before now?

I kinda liked the bit with the Scions, though. Sure, as soon as we didn't spend any time at all mourning Thancred it was pretty obvious they were coming back - and by the time Urianger added himself to Y'shtola's sacrifice for no real reason it was utterly inconceivable they wouldn't be - but THEY, presumably, didn't know that. It's the thought that counts.

[Rinhi]

b) Meteion killed most of those civilizations herself.
If a is true ... wow, someone at Squeenix is a MAJOR pessimist. And if b is true ... it's a big universe. If one single person can end it that easily, why hasn't it ended long before now?

I don't remember if it's straight up said or strongly implied, but Meteion could also influence the emotions of others iirc

[Caurcas]

Meteion is the worst part of the whole expansion. They should've went with the sound being more of a "the dark beyond the stars" thing.

[KitingGenbu]

The writing was great individually for the most part, but it really did feel either 'rushed' or they had to fill in a bunch of 'plot holes' after killing zodiark (which I feel created new plotholes tbh).

I'm sure we can all agree how great Emet-Selch is though.

[Vahlnir]

The writing was great individually for the most part, but it really did feel either 'rushed' or they had to fill in a bunch of 'plot holes' after killing zodiark (which I feel created new plotholes tbh).

I'm sure we can all agree how great Emet-Selch is though.

For me it felt rushed up until Garlemald, then the pace slowed again. We were going from place to place doing this and that and, quite frankly, it was a bit overwhelming. lol We didn't really have the time to sit back and enjoy ourselves through Labyrinthos or Thavnair initially. We went there, did a few things and left again. Garlemald was where they started taking the time to flesh out a zone through various quests. It quickened again at random points after that but it wasn't anything I would consider jarring.

[Iscah]

I'm sure we can all agree how great Emet-Selch is though.

Hythlodaeus is way better than Emet-Selch. :P

He seems like someone I'd actually want to spend time with. Emet works as a character but doesn't feel like a friend.