I HATE THIS!!! (Massive Raid Spoilers)

[Duskane]

Themis small
Elidibus ancient form is also small
they are the same

[Crypto137]

My dream scenario would be if all of the Elpis stuff is actually a build up to a future reunion with these characters where they will serve as your new companions. They could either go further back and let us play the adventures of the unsundered Azem, or do a time skip (possibly via timey-wimey reflection stuff) and introduce us to their reincarnated versions. In any case, I certainly would love to see more of these characters.

TL;DR: Yoshi-P, please bring mommy Venat back, I'll give you a red bull.

[Powercow]

I can't believe they added Dracula Castlevania to FFXIV.

Um, Castlevania is actually the name of the princess.

[Nekaru_Infitima]

My dream scenario would be if all of the Elpis stuff is actually a build up to a future reunion with these characters where they will serve as your new companions. The could either go further back and let us play the adventures of the unsundered Azem, or do a time skip (possibly via timey-wimey reflection stuff) and introduce us to their reincarnated versions. In any case, I certainly would love to see more of these characters.

TL;DR: Yoshi-P, please bring mommy Venat back, I'll give you a red bull.

You might be onto something. I was re-watching scenes and something said made me think that MAYBE they are going to reborn them.



With new parts for ALL to play.

[Rulakir]

Well, I agree with you OP. I suspect because the writers wouldn't touch the protagonists what we get instead are 'disposable' friends from the past to pull your emotional strings. It sucks. I don't understand this penchant they have for a closed time loop either, an alternate timeline would've made most people happy. Instead we get this contrived mess.

[Iscah]

I sense there's going to be a twist coming, and it'll likely just make it even worse for you.

Remember -- we know almost *nothing* about the Lahabrea who died in HW.

But we do know "Lahabrea" is just a title, one that can apparently be passed to family members if they're qualified...

That's what I'm dreading. Erich seems far too nice to have to turn into "our" Lahabrea.

Hopefully people are right with the idea of him being Claudien instead.

There exist three different G'raha Tias across various screwed-up timelines, as well as now four different versions of our WoL.

How are you counting those?

By my understanding there's only one instance in which time has split apart to create multiple timelines and copies of characters. There's only one "screwed-up timeline" (the Eighth Calamity timeline) alongside our own, resulting in a total of two G'rahas and two WoLs.

The other timeline's G'raha woke up in the future of that timeline, travelled back to our time(ish) in the First, became the Exarch, and ended up on our side of the timeline split. "Our" G'raha was in the tower until we let him out again. Those are the only two. (Possibly very theoretically there might be a second copy of the Exarch on the other timeline, depending on exactly where it splits, and if so he likely died when the First was rejoined. The game has not discussed this bleak possibility. Either way, all copies are accounted for.)

The other timeline's WoL dies in the calamity. Our WoL is us. Again, there are no more copies. The events at Elpis and Pandaemonium are simply integrating into our past as it always was.

It's like when watching movies.
Why even watch it when you know that the "good guys" will win in the end anyways?
It's the journey that makes it exciting and enjoyable, not the ending per say.
So enjoy the ride while it lasts and remember it after it has ended.

Knowing that the good guys will win is very different to knowing that the good guys will likely soon be tempered by an elder primal, suffer the destruction of their entire civilisation and possibly spend the next several millennia being very awful people.

Is there any solid evidence that Themis really is Elidibus?
The only thing I'm seeing that even HINTS at it is Elidibus telling us in the Occular that he might have remembered us from Elpis, maybe, and us not having run into anyone who calls themselves Elidibus yet while there.
And I guess his relative age to the Convocation members.

In addition to the other hints mention above, one of the Tales From stories narrated by Emet describes him as a "youth of small stature" and he certainly fits that description.

With new parts for ALL to play.

I took that to mean "all the Scions", but perhaps...

I don't understand this penchant they have for a closed time loop either, an alternate timeline would've made most people happy. Instead we get this contrived mess.

Meanwhile I don't get the animosity people have for the closed loop story. I much prefer seeing it all come together and link up rather than starting new alternate timelines all over the place.

[Imora]

I personally hate alternate time lines. Horrendously overused and I like to be able to track my lore. Canon lore. You can't have one solid, canon lore line when you have multiple time lines. I don't like it

It's one of the primary reasons I hate Marvel and DC Universe. Too many timelines, reboots and whatnot

Give me a good old closed time loop for a change.

[Hysorn]

I mean, I think it's okay, young Elidibus is a completely different person than the one that tried to undermine our efforts and kill us. Cherish the moments of his innocent and friendly-self rather than the one that sacrificed everything and became bitter and wrathful over a long forgotten dream.

[Rulakir]

Meanwhile I don't get the animosity people have for the closed loop story. I much prefer seeing it all come together and link up rather than starting new alternate timelines all over the place.

Too much in the way of mental gymnastics and suspension of disbelief for me. Plus, I'm not on board with our 'new old friends' being doomed in perpetuity and there's nothing we can do to change their outcome. Pandemonium feels completely pointless because of it too. I can't wait to see the reasoning for helping the Ancients with that when they're still all going to fall to the Final Days.

Alternate timelines are 'set it and forget it', much like the Crystal Exarch's in ShB. I would like to know that we saved the Ancients in at least one timeline even if it happens off screen and is never again mentioned.

[Packetdancer]

If you're referring to the void, we don't know that it's 'not possible' to fix. Afterall the Empty is being fixed on the First.

In fact, the questline you can unlock after doing all four Shadowbringers role quests and the Warring Triad fights from back in Heavensward...

...strongly suggests the Void can be fixed. Beq Lugg is working with Cylva and Unukalhai on that very project at the end of that quest chain, even though you're told that it could take an incredibly long time to see results.