Revelations (and Feedback) from Pandæmonium: Asphodelos

[Anonymoose]

Has Lahabrea's anti-villain-decay day come...?
Let's find out.

First Impressions

I don't know what I was expecting, but "time travel back to Elpis - possibly expanding the time loop farther both forward and back (and forward and back) than Endwalker itself - and fight Dracula" was not it! Lmao.

Like if that was Elidibus, but he's not yet the Elidibus, we ARE farther back, right? I assume he's not just messing with us; the guard did say not to waste Convocation member's time, which would be a weird thing to say to another Convocation member.

I'm not sure what to expect from this set-up. "Dead Mom Athena" feels important and is possibly the motivation for this entire cluster. They focused on the difficulty of Phoinix and the motivation Lahabrea had to succeed there pretty hard, too, so it's possible Lahabrea's already mad and trying to resurrect his wife? The way they talked about Athena it didn't sound like her death was expected or what she wanted it to be. But then is that Lahabrea the Lahabrea we know, or is this Lahabrea doomed to die and his son the Lahabrea we know? Notice that the kid had Dad's mask on his transformed form, and Dad's glyph just casually hanging on the crystal on his belt. We're obviously intended to assume Themis is Elidibus (all but confirmed); maybe this is how they first grew close? This is gonna be a weird one. Anyroad, there's a baseless theory from which to assail the next set of questions and hypotheses in Part 2...

But someone knew we would come...before even the "first time" we arrived...

Wonder who's playing crystal games with Azem / Venat / WoL...

Middling Impressions

Still thinking about the ambiguity of the timeline. Lahabrea - allegedly the one we know - completes the true Phoenix around the time Hades becomes Emet-Selch. Or did he? That experiment was swiftly undone; could we call that a success?

Themis alleges that he and Azem presently work for the same organization under a member of the Convocation. I don't know whether to view that claim with suspicion, as Emet-Selch says everyone gossips about the Fourteen. What are the chances no one would know Themis was Elidibus? On the other hand, Themis acts like it's no big deal if he seizes creative control after Hesperos falls.

One thing I'm very curious / anxious about now is that - in the short story, Lahabrea's phoenix merged with a soul filled with anguish and regret that raged against the call of the Lifestream. They said it was a random passing soul... but what if it wasn't? Or if such a possibility were happening for a reason? (...Athena...?) Eric claims that Lahabrea never grieved her, just took over her position, but Themis claims that despite only knowing Lahabrea through his public persona, his coldness is a likely front - a talent for composure.

Themis argues that someone with powerful mind-altering magicks is behind Eric and Hesperos's minds being fuddled. Does anyone we know fit that bill, or is that the foreshadow? That Eric, Hesperos, and Lahabrea are all heeding whispers that warp their ambition from an unknown third party?

Eric's mind is fuddled because he heard whispers that caused him to lose control and unleash rage from a place of sorrow. That's his ambition; he resents his circumstances. Hesperos did everything he could to be Lahabrea's adopted second son, ever jealous of Eric. That was his ambition. If the whispers / psychic mage are just the final boss, Lahabrea could also be in its grasp with trying to get Athena back as his ambition.

Whatever the case the causal time loop theory seems to be in play; Claudien highlights that regardless of whether the crystal they received was from an Ancient who saw Pandaemonium first-hand or someone manipulating a specific chain of events into a stable pattern from the future, the "present" is based on our successful intervention, we just have to subjectively experience it first-hand to preserve it.

Based on recent forum discussions, I assume if that blue crystal is just from Venat and that's why it suddenly appeared in the sea Sharlayan was observing, to prop up her machination, certain people discontented with Endwalker may be rather salty, depending on the characterization of the act, lol.

[KageTokage]

Thoughts on the raid.

The timing of when the memory crystal showed up is...curious, being it happened just before the Sharlayan exodus as opposed to more recently.

It's pretty obvious that Themis is Elidibus before he gained his seat, and I feel like it's probably these very events that end up placing him in consideration for the role...and more ironically, that might end up meaning it's literally us from the present who acted as his inspiration, not Azem as it seemed to be initially.

Lahabrea being a father is...not a development I was expecting, but initial impressions seem to be painting him as just much of a busybody as he was in present, though to the extent of neglecting family.

Erichthonios seems like a pretty typical "well done son" guy who's trying to live up to his family's reputation despite not thinking himself half as competent as they are.

Was not expecting Hesperos as a Dracula wannabe to be the final boss of the tier, but I'd assume the next warden will probably also assume the form of some famous literary monster as well.

As with most raid stories, there's not really enough information going around just yet to make a strong judgment of anything from the first tier.

[WhiteArchmage]

Well, I'm already confused. And I guess it's good that the naming for the raid series gives absolutely no context/spoilers...I think? They're just named Asphodelos: The (First to Fourth) Circle...

Maybe the Circles of Hell? Though that's a different cosmology...

Assorted thoughts

Lahabrea's... predecessor(? and wife?), the previous chief keyward, was Athena so we can rule her out from our Olympians = Convocation... sorta. Also Pandaemonium being about the works of Lahabrea, guess it was obvious enough to say "called it", and there's still chance for the man himself to make an appearance.

Seems the next tier is called Abyssos. I figured it'd be Asphodelos, Tartarus, and Elysium, but... I mean, I'm not mad.

Themis has to be Elidibus. He's named after the Greek Titaness of Justice. The "friend" he mentions sounds a lot like Azem. There's a slim possibility that he's actually Elidibus' apprentice and his friend is actually Elidibus himself, but really it sounds MUCH more like Azem... who somehow seemed to know WE(he/she/they?) would literally bump into Kidibu-no, wait, that's taken- fine, Themis. So...

Hesperos makes a dashing Dracula. It's mentioned that Hesperos was driven by the apparent Bigger Bad, he calls himself hemitheos (demigod) and his devotion to Lahabrea deepened as a result.

Of note, the normal gear reinforces the "circles of Hell" naming, Limbo is the first and outermost circle in the Divine Comedy, basically because Dante had a huge crush on Greek Philosophers but didn't want to piss off the church (further) by putting them in Paradiso, so he made up Limbo as the place were illustrious people who didn't accept Christ (by... being born before him...) would hang out. It's not BAD, but it's not good, either. Actually its closest equivalent WOULD be the Field of Asphodel, so, fitting.

Oh! Right! Time loop! We're in another one. Guessing the end of the raid storyline will be "so, how did you find out about all this anyway? a convocation crystal? that's odd, may I keep it?" or Themis realizing he's in a closed time loop so he has to create the crystal and dump it into the Aetherial Sea after his final death. Isn't it so convenient that a wash in the Underworld restores your memories after Elidibus Primal-izing himself and subsequent millenia made him forget stuff?

[Iscah]

My head is already kind of spinning at the potential time-wimey shenanigans that are enabling this raid story to even happen in the first place.

Prettymuch. I'm guessing the crystal might not actually be a soul stone, as such, but might be imbued with a message for us and/or a spell to bring us back to Elpis?

As much as we-the-player are free to return there at any time, I don't think our character can actually get back there at will.

Maybe the Circles of Hell? Though that's a different cosmology...

It can be hinting at our concept of the "circles of hell" without being an actual hell.

[Rongway]

The implication that I'm getting is that the Lahabrea of the past's name is

Haphæstus

based on

Erich being his and Athena's son, and the family fixation on chains

[Nekaru_Infitima]

Speaking of which Elidibus being Themis makes him Justice.

[JeanneOrnitier]

Yeah, name talk:

Themis is the Greek goddess of justice/law/order.

Hesperos is the Greek personification of the evening star (Venus). As I'm sure most of us know, the evening star is associated in the Bible with Lucifer. So it makes sense for him to be the villain of a raid themed around the nine circles of hell.

With Erichthonios being Lahabrea's son, Lahabrea's real name is likely Hephaestus. Erichthonios of Athens was the son of Hephaestus and Athena. Also Hephaestus is the god of the forge, which parallels Lahabrea being the Convocation's master of creation magic.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Thoughts on the raid

I thought the fights were okay. Utterly baffled there’s no Voice acting though, figured we’d be getting that as the norm though but i guess we’ve downscaled to only 2 new songs and 0 voice acting. I’m guessing my previous assumption were right and Lahabrea’s true name is Hephaestus. My friend had an interesting theory that “Eric” might end up being the Lahabrea we know in present day which would be an interesting twist.

[JeanneOrnitier]

I'm curious about Themis.

He's clearly Elidibus, since he had Elidibus's voice actor in his voiced cutscene at the end of the MSQ's credits. Yet despite wearing the white robes of the Emissary, he doesn't have a red mask. But during the Elpis MSQ they alluded to the short story with Azem and the grapes, in which he was already Elidibus, so he should already be Elidibus here. Plus he already knows Azem. Is he undercover, explaining why he's using his real name and a white mask? But then why wear the white robes and not black?

[symbiote129]

I'm curious about Themis.

He's clearly Elidibus, since he had Elidibus's voice actor in his voiced cutscene at the end of the MSQ's credits. Yet despite wearing the white robes of the Emissary, he doesn't have a red mask. But during the Elpis MSQ they alluded to the short story with Azem and the grapes, in which he was already Elidibus, so he should already be Elidibus here. Plus he already knows Azem. Is he undercover, explaining why he's using his real name and a white mask? But then why wear the white robes and not black?

Didn't Elidibus wear a white robe equivalent of his Ascian fellows? Wasn't his position of a special sort just like that of Azem?