Balance between SGE and SCH

[Duskane]

I don't think SCH is clunky
its just incredibly lazy in both gameplay and design that you can do just as much as Sage with minimal effort.

[PikoAliapoh]

I've mained SCH for years.... Without getting into skills and what could be done for the job, I think the OP still has a point. It feels underwhelming now compared to other healer jobs.

SCH used to be the niche barrier healer. We'll know how things shake out more with new raids and patches, but SGE seems snappier, more DPS, and apparently can overwrite SCH shields with weaker ones.

I'm just not seeing SCH's selling point or utility anymore compared to other healing jobs. SCH is a job that now feels best suited for learning parties when you need to overcompensate for players who don't know mechanics (e.g. expedient). If I'm running raids or even dungeons with a group who knows the basics of how to play, I feel like any of the other healer jobs would serve the party better.

[Dearche]

I've mained SCH for years.... Without getting into skills and what could be done for the job, I think the OP still has a point. It feels underwhelming now compared to other healer jobs.

SCH used to be the niche barrier healer. We'll know how things shake out more with new raids and patches, but SGE seems snappier, more DPS, and apparently can overwrite SCH shields with weaker ones.

I'm just not seeing SCH's selling point or utility anymore compared to other healing jobs. SCH is a job that now feels best suited for learning parties when you need to overcompensate for players who don't know mechanics (e.g. expedient). If I'm running raids or even dungeons with a group who knows the basics of how to play, I feel like any of the other healer jobs would serve the party better.

I've also mained SCH for years, and have only switched to SGE due to how good it feels to play.

I think your logic is quite flawed though, as 90% of the time you're effectively dealing with prog in the first place. Both actual prog as well as weekly raids you effectively have to treat in a similar manner in that people die over lack of knowledge/skill as well as laziness all the time. SCH's overcompensation lets us deal with that quite well, which means that only on speed kills and farms does SCH lose its appeal. But at that point, who cares about such details. Speed kills will optimize to the point that any weird thing (including the chance to completely ignore mechanics) can be the reason why you pick particular jobs, and for farm, nobody cares what you take as long as it doesn't increase the chance of a wipe.

As things stand, as a SGE, I want my cohealer to be SCH of all things rather than an AST or WHM. People are really undervaluing expediant and protraction. Maybe protraction isn't some god skill, but expediant certainly is, and I strongly believe that prog groups will be begging for SCHs who know how to use expedient properly.

[Sighearth]

Wanna (as sch) heal as much if not a little bit higher than SGE? Then do 9% less dps. Wanna do comparable DPS (5.3% less) then heal 30% less. How is this not significant. My point is, let SGE do 5.3% more dps its fine, just lets bring that 30% less healing down to a 15% maybe 10%.

[Semirhage]

When do you need to cast six Cure 3s?

[Sighearth]

When do you need to cast six Cure 3s?

Nowhere lol, that was some illustrative random numbers.

[Shuuli]

I think there are a quite lot of problems with Scholar that Sage do not face.

Sage has some abilities that cancel each other but Scholar has abilities that literally make other abilities unable to be casted...

I like the fairy, but us eating it to cast some abilities really do it some injustice...

It has become much smoother than before for sure but the changes are underwhelming.

Also, White mages and Astro, I do not play these classes that much so can you tell me if your two jobs have any package of spells that legit cancel each others'?

Cause if you have now a Sage and a Scholar in the same team, you can hear the big "sigh" coming from the other side of the galaxy through your computer screen, accepting the fact that "I guess my shields are not working now, thaaanks..."

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Cause if you have now a Sage and a Scholar in the same team, you can hear the big "sigh" coming from the other side of the galaxy through your computer screen, accepting the fact that "I guess my shields are not working now, thaaanks..."

All it takes is one question to solve that 'sigh': "Hey, I'll be leaving the Succor/E.Prognosis duty to you, is that fine?"

If it's a party of randoms in via DF, all you have to determine is whether your co-SGE/SCH will use their GCD shield really often or not. Every other kits in their arsenals besides their GCD spells works together.

[dezzmont]

All it takes is one question to solve that 'sigh': "Hey, I'll be leaving the Succor/E.Prognosis duty to you, is that fine?"

If it's a party of randoms in via DF, all you have to determine is whether your co-SGE/SCH will use their GCD shield really often or not. Every other kits in their arsenals besides their GCD spells works together.

While this is true it is objectively bad design that they clash this bad. Obviously it wouldn't be good for shield stacks to totally trivialize content either but it would be nice if they could find an elegant way to solve 'shield collisions,' which have always been a problem, though that may be more a back end sorta issue rather than a class design issue.

And they definitely do need to pass over SCH and clean up how all the fairy abilities interact with each other and get rid of all those 'remove all those fairy abilities to get some sort of benefit in exchange' effects. It is conceptually interesting for SCH to say... have a super-mode where they can't use their fairy but get more healing and aetherflow, or replace their fairy with a different pool of effects, but people... kinda wanna use the abilities of the fairy when playing the class with the fairy, wildly enough, and I would rather the job be more designed around its interaction with its shield modifications and ability to make the fairy do stuff to set you up for success than eating it to spam ED 3 more times.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

And they definitely do need to pass over SCH and clean up how all the fairy abilities interact with each other and get rid of all those 'remove all those fairy abilities to get some sort of benefit in exchange' effects. It is conceptually interesting for SCH to say... have a super-mode where they can't use their fairy but get more healing and aetherflow, or replace their fairy with a different pool of effects, but people... kinda wanna use the abilities of the fairy when playing the class with the fairy, wildly enough, and I would rather the job be more designed around its interaction with its shield modifications and ability to make the fairy do stuff to set you up for success than eating it to spam ED 3 more times.

Couldn't agree more there. Ironically the PvP counterpart of Dissipation looks more interesting despite being simpler effect wise.