Non instanced dungeons. An under-looked game design method in XI

[Alfortis]

Hello everyone, I don't post very much nor play very much. The furthest i've reached was 38 on a deleted character and just decided to wait until 2.0 gets released along with throwing some cash at SE for support. Any-who, here is my suggestion to the game designers.

As an aspiring game designer, I tend to notice different design methods in games. Something I notice in XI that I didn't see that much in 14 or any other MMO is the way they do dungeons or even outside zones. What we all remember in XI is the environments and going on journeys with our friends (mostly). This is something that I can never remember in WoW, TERA, or other MMOs (not that they are not good MMOs, they are fantastic, but they just lacked what XI had when it came to remembering zones). Now, something that we all seemed to enjoy was done in XI, but we do not really ask how it was done and why we enjoy it. Usually we just give simple answers, which is fine since the players are not suppose to notice this.

What XI's dungeons or some outside zones had that other MMOs did not have was replay or backtracking value. If you notice in XI, nearly all the dungeons that were adjacent to outside zones had an opening area. This area usually had weak monsters in it where the player can feel comfortable to walk around in. But as time went by in the dungeon, we realize that there is something much bigger in the dungeon, something that we cannot understand yet and maybe even bigger than us. Its kinda scary but also mysterious.

Lets look at the inner horutotu ruins as an example. When we first went in there, we were kinda anxious and just fought everything in sight, but as time went by, we keept going in further and notice that some monsters were way too high for our level. We decided to come back some other time at a higher level and travel further, but little did we expect to find a rich environment with hidden walls and magic gates or even a giant notorious monster way out of our league.

Just about every zone or non instanced dungeon had this in XI. We wanted to keep pushing further and further to find out what that unknown is ahead of us. Eventually, we grow accustomed to that area we enjoy and figure out every corner of the area. Even some of us helped random people to let them enjoy what we did. This is why some players tend to call the area home, this environment that they visit often is now apart of their life. Of all the games ive played, the FFXI players seem to remember the majority of the zones. This isnt because it got repetitive (even though grinding did), its because we drew ourselves in the environment and got comfortable with it. We explored areas we shouldn't have at a low level or even figured out secrets that other players had no idea of. This is something that I did not experience in other MMOs.

Lets use TERA as an example. Now I love the game due to its fresh combat system and I plan to play it for a very long time. But, it does not have that world feel that XI has. The reason behind this is because we run around doing quest that sends us to the next area. We love the pretty graphics and the grand world it has to offer, but it all ends too quickly. In FFXI, we ended up visiting all the areas in the world more than 3 times at a different levels far apart from each other. By the time we are 75, most of us should know the basic areas without ever having to look at a map.

The reason why I decided to post this is because I hope the FFXIV designers are going to use this method on the 2.0 patch and I hope they read it even though its unlikely. Here is my pros and cons of this method.

Pros:
Environments with a deep meaning behind them.
Players feeling comfortable with the area and it being a part of their life
Less development hassle since the deeper zones are still the same theme
Quality zones over Quantity zones

Cons:
Some players may find the zones to be repetitive
If done wrong like the yuhtunga temple (sorry if i got it wrong) the players will abandon the idea of visiting the area unless they need to
Some players hate the idea of backtracking (usually in single player games)

Final word:
I understand that they are revamping the area in 2.0, but that doesn't mean that everything will be fixed. There must be a design philosophy behind it or else it might fall. Take a look at todays gaming, there are tons of clones everywhere, but they usually do bad upon release. This isnt because the devs suck, its because every game designer has a different philosophy or style of making games and trying to copy someone style is much harder than it sounds. I have full confidence that Square Enix will pull this through, I just figured I give my thoughts into this.

TLDR; Quality zones over Quantity. Final Fantasy XI's non instanced dungeons design were what made us love the games environment so much and I recommend using that same design in XIV.

[Wolfie]

Couple of things I want to mention:

1. The people who just leveled through FFXI, without trying to do the missions (original, COP, ROZ), actually didn't get to see even half the zones. Sites like Campistarus and leveling guides only took you through a handful of zones, and even in those, only in certain safe, overused areas.

2. Quality over quantity definitely. I would like to see at least some pre-dungeon areas with dangerous mobs that need to be used for entry quests. They give dungeons more of a purpose and integrate them into the world, beyond just "oh I get to go here because people at my level do this dungeon".

[Alfortis]

1. The people who just leveled through FFXI, without trying to do the missions (original, COP, ROZ), actually didn't get to see even half the zones. Sites like Campistarus and leveling guides only took you through a handful of zones, and even in those, only in certain safe, overused areas.

Thank you for mentioning this, I guess it slipped my mind. A con with these dungeons would lead to what you said. There is a possibility that there will be players who will not even experience those zones since the modern mentality in MMOs today is to follow the herd.

[Rutelor]

Alfortis, thanks for your OP. One of the things I miss the most in this game, when I compare it to my recollections of XI, is the sense of attachment to the geography, which was achieved by making me experience it. But if this game keeps on polling and surveying to make design decisions, the hurried masses will move us away from a significant non-instanced world, and into the ready-made instances-cum-teleport.

You and I will spend hours trying to convince those that disagree with those among us that believe that slower is better; but they won't bother even to entertain conjecture of it. They want their snap-snap levels, and their chop-chop achievements for yesterday, so that they can all Q Q about how bored they are today, and how little content there was in the last patch.

R

[Irzibe]

Alfortis, thanks for your OP. One of the things I miss the most in this game, when I compare it to my recollections of XI, is the sense of attachment to the geography, which was achieved by making me experience it. But if this game keeps on polling and surveying to make design decisions, the hurried masses will move us away from a significant non-instanced world, and into the ready-made instances-cum-teleport.

You and I will spend hours trying to convince those that disagree with those among us that believe that slower is better; but they won't bother even to entertain conjecture of it. They want their snap-snap levels, and their chop-chop achievements for yesterday, so that they can all Q Q about how bored they are today, and how little content there was in the last patch.

R

LOLOLOL so true.

[Zyph]

I can tell you, leveling BLU in FFXI was one of the things that really got me antiquated with EVERY zone and EVERY dungeon pretty well.

I really hate an excessive amount of instances because it completely detracts from what this genre is, a Massively Multiplayer Online game, not just a Multiplayer Online game with towns acting as lobbies. If you want multiplayer dungeon running with some friends, play Diablo or Guild Wars 1. The majority of the world should be there for everyone to explore, at any time.

"Oh hello, what are you doing in Gustav Tunnel? /wave" is preferable to "Oh so you're waiting for a party outside of Mun-tuy Cellars too, huh?"

Instanced dungeons have their place, with time limits, traps to spring, levels to pull, minibosses to kill, challenges to overcome, and loot to reflect the difficulty of your victory, but when everything is instanced, it may as well not even be called an MMO.

[Jinko]

For what its worth Shposhae has what you are talking about, starts off low level the further you go in the more the level rises and then there are NM's dotted around, sure they aren't ridiculously high level or anything but it has that same sense of progression when you are the correct level, finally fighting and figuring out how to spawn the Couerl etc.

You say you haven't played the game much and then say the area's aren't memorable well d'uh you have to experience things to remember them, I already have memories of 15 man leve parties in Nophica well for instance, completing job quests, getting some of the harder to reach aertherial gates and the first time I stepped in Mor Dhona and Coerthas.

There are plenty of cool places and memorable area's if only you take the time to experience them.

[Azurymber]

FFXI had the most amazing world of any MMO i have ever played. Not only that, but every zone had tons of cool places with different mobs to level on.

Leveling beastmaster surpassed any experience I have had in any other game. Having to seek out new camps, find secret caves, create my own camps (before they made mobs respawn) and survive, always ensured I was having a lot of fun.

I remember getting to Lufaise Medows for the first time, and how amazing it felt being one of the few on the servers to make it there. Exploring the sanctuary of zi'tah for the first time as a low level whitemage trying to sneak-invis past everything and eventually making it through Ro'Maeve to the hall of the gods. Finding out there are sewers underneath sandoria and windurst, and much more.

In FFXIV on the other hand, within the first few days of open beta I had pretty well gone -everywhere- in the world, including all the atherytes, all the areas with high level mobs, etc. I literally ran around trying to find cool unique things. Meaning i covered pretty well 100% of the world (running to every cave, every corner, etc).

I ended up making 2 exploration guides for FFXIV.
The first was during open beta:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?foru...493176341076#3

The second was in may of 2011 (1 year ago)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rets-of-Eorzea

Overall, I was really disappointed. I honestly hope 2.0 captures what FFXI was able to achieve. However, from the pics they have shown it looks like 2.0 will be a bunch of small interconnected instanced-like zones. Which honestly looks really disappointing.

[Jynx]

There are plenty of cool places and memorable area's if only you take the time to experience them.

There are a handfull at best, and half of them are just a extra rock or slight difference in general terrain. As a avid explorerer I find the 1.0 maps incredibally dull and droll with the small smatering of cool stuff if you look hard enough.

[TheVedis]

I always liked a dungeon before the dungeon type feel.

Im hoping the raid in 1.23 is INSIDE the imperial stronghold, make you fight your way to it...