Summoner doesn't feel like it Summons.

[LotusBlack97]

Imo they could just turn all the primals in demi-summon, give a big flashy skill to be used, have them use basic attack while u use your elemental attacks, it would be basically the same thing we have now, but it would also feel like a pet job since u would always have something by your side. (also give us Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan)

[ElizanderNorisse]

It changed quite drastically but I got used to it now.

[wereotter]

Imo they could just turn all the primals in demi-summon, give a big flashy skill to be used, have them use basic attack while u use your elemental attacks, it would be basically the same thing we have now, but it would also feel like a pet job since u would always have something by your side. (also give us Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan)

Given the nature of the summoning of Shiva, I don't think that will ever be one we summon. But also, there's jut not much point to adding three more summons to follow Phoenix if they're effectively the same except different animations.

[ElizanderNorisse]

Forgot to also add this. It’s quite satisfying to summon the three primals in all their splendour, just wish they remained a bit longer like Bahamut & Phoenix.

[DES_VII]

Because SE needs to stop with half ass reworks and making every job brain dead with little creativity.

And I really do not understand why you people expect that this is solid foundation for this failure to grow. Ignoring all the trends in SE design, all the proof that healers, mch, and drk literally got nothing in this expansion... WE ARE LEVEL 90! The foundation is supposed to be set by level 60. I'll be fine if the job needed fine tuning or a job mechanic just didn't work out with playerbase but this job is just awfully designed. Like the job literally just upgrades each action after a point, and the one ability that the people that love job is locked until lvl86 and it still doesn't add anything to job.

Summons and pet actions can still ghost
Job is barely a caster anymore
Still spamming a single attack
Aetherflow is even more disjointed from the job
Utility is garbage with low dps
Phoenix is a DPS lost once it is learned
Actively pentalized for having too much spell speed
Carby is a hinderance
No in depth mechanics
Rotation literally revolves one button

If y'all like to settle on garbage then settle on garbage but I think it's just shameful for a company that knew the job needed a rework since 4.x and this is the best they could do

Edit: phoenix is now stronger than bahamut slightly in single target

Well keep complaining, I'm sure your next rework will be 7.0 and this thread will still be filled with X should this and this, and so forth. With the new changes *shrug*
I can see people getting out shape from a total redesign, I get it. But I feel the majority enjoy it. Only people that don't are posting thread after thread with the same ppl.
And everybody has Their idea of how SMN should be. Everyone has a different one. And I don't see a middle ground.
This happens in tons off RPG games when reworks happen.

[Atamis]

Given the nature of the summoning of Shiva, I don't think that will ever be one we summon. But also, there's jut not much point to adding three more summons to follow Phoenix if they're effectively the same except different animations.

They could absolutely use shiva as well. There is an entity known as shiva who isn't tied to Ysayle and this is all summons have ever needed, just someone to believe in them. Even Ryne was able to summon shiva using a second hand account and enough aether to force it into being.

[wereotter]

They could absolutely use shiva as well. There is an entity known as shiva who isn't tied to Ysayle and this is all summons have ever needed, just someone to believe in them. Even Ryne was able to summon shiva using a second hand account and enough aether to force it into being.

Ryne used the same method as Ysale did, invoking the legend of Shiva into herself. She didn't use Eden to summon another version of her the same way she did with the other 5 primals.

I mean if they wanted to create another job mechanic for invoking primals, they could have the summoner do something similar to reaper where the character model changes so that you can invoke Shiva, Thordan, and/or Tsukiyomi. But that doesn't seem like the direction they're taking the job currently.

[battleshadow66]

The Summoner didn't feel like it summoned before. You basically summoned tiny clown vomit to dot the enemy. Felt like nothing. Bargain Bin Warlocks as I always called them.

[Atamis]

Ryne used the same method as Ysale did, invoking the legend of Shiva into herself. She didn't use Eden to summon another version of her the same way she did with the other 5 primals.

I mean if they wanted to create another job mechanic for invoking primals, they could have the summoner do something similar to reaper where the character model changes so that you can invoke Shiva, Thordan, and/or Tsukiyomi. But that doesn't seem like the direction they're taking the job currently.

Yes Shiva worked like that here, much like thordan, and shinryu worked (and Ryne). But it doesn't need to work like that. Much like Anima was summoned, it just needs willed into existence.

I think they were inching towards that direction on a lesser scale. Original bahamut trance was all about channeling his power instead of summoning it, like Ysayle channeled Shiva, she was just much better at it. Right now it feels like they were being safe by having physical summons do their thing and leave while letting you channel a portion to do the attacks yourself. A Shiva could easily fit his model while being lore friendly. We really aren't summoning the real Titan, just a small fraction of him, much like we wouldn't be summoning Shiva just a small fraction of the essence.
I mean to say, theres more than one way to summon things. Phoenix is a prime example. There is no beast tribes summoning Phoenix. Louisoix *became* phoenix, and we inherited it from him. We can summon Phoenix fine. We partially channel it aswell. There isn't really anything stopping us from doing the same with Shiva.