Summoner doesn't feel like it Summons.

[Cheshire_Katzen]

For background I've mained Summoner since I started a little over a year ago, so I do not have any reference for it through its iterations.

This is mostly just from my observations and feelings, so it's just my opinion but I was curious if this rings with anyone else.

So with the new Summoner I want to start with what I like, because there's quite a bit to the rework and I just like to start with the good news. The new animations look visually stunning. It's such a pretty class to play. Also the buffs to DPS for abilities has increased the damage output amazingly. It just burns through enemy HP like a wildfire. This is mostly because everything was buffed to make up for the lack of DoTs which I think is a good trade. While I'll miss the dots the damage they'd do has been more than made up for. Also our Carbuncle can just shield us whenever which is a nice defense mechanic for immediate help instead of the previous Summon Titan-Egi and then wait for them to cast the Shield, which while nice didn't help for sudden Oh-Nos during combat.

However these boons have replaced what made a Summoner, a Summoner. Yes we have the animation of Summoning, but we don't summon anything other than a Carbuncle/Egi that can buff us or our team, only when we're not using other spells. We "Summon" our Egis/Primals to do an attack... then they leave and we have access to new spells that we cast. So by that reason it's not a Summon, it's a casting a spell to enhance our other spells. Yes we Summon Bahamut and Phoenix, but that's it now. For the most part we're just a Black Mage 2.

Before we had actual Summons that casted abilities from themselves when we told them to. They would stay with us and attack our foes. They were minor but fun and I had to choose which Summon was best for my scenario, be it Garuda for AoEs to deal with adds, Ifrit for bosses. and Titan for a more defensive play. When I chose one of their abilities it was cast from them not from me. They were an actual companion with me in combat. There was thought that went into the gameplay. Now each Egi-Cast does the exact same thing once and then leaves and just alters how quickly your spells, that you cast, attack/how much damage they do. So they really don't matter that much. It can mostly be summed up as cast as many spells that aren't on CD yet. So this fun, class that required a little thought is just mind numbingly simple and... you just cast really pretty spells while your Carbuncle(Or Egi if you changed it) does pretty much as much as a Minion since you only need it out to cast your other spells in which case it just disappears during that time.

[Cheshire_Katzen]

I'm not looking to fight, and I know a lot of people are happy with the rework and I know the rework is really powerful and pretty... it just... doesn't feel like a Summoner anymore and that really kinda makes me sad because I love Summoning in games. I love the feeling of having a powerful companion/eidolon by my side as we dive into combat casting spells and fighting together. And it's that together part that's missing now. Maybe this changes at level 90. But until I hit that level, which I will because I hope things do change... Anyways, I'm mostly posting this to see if anyone else feels the same way or if I'm just alone in this thought.

[Zordrage]

Summons are more like just some very detailed Visual effects that shows that you switched to a different spell kit lol

[Xiozen]

I do not have any reference for it through its iterations

...says it all. Final Fantasy summoner, old school final fantasy summoner was like this... the summon appears, does a massive attack and disappears. You rinse and repeat. FFXI online summoner job kept the summons out, with a slow drip-drip of MP to maintain the summon...allowing for you to actually play alongside your avatar. FFXIV having the summons appear and perform it's attack and vanish is the original smn concept and execution. Soooooo, perhaps a little research before posting something like this may be in order here. Just my 2-cent

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

...says it all. Final Fantasy summoner, old school final fantasy summoner was like this... the summon appears, does a massive attack and disappears. You rinse and repeat. FFXI online summoner job kept the summons out, with a slow drip-drip of MP to maintain the summon...allowing for you to actually play alongside your avatar. FFXIV having the summons appear and perform it's attack and vanish is the original smn concept and execution. Soooooo, perhaps a little research before posting something like this may be in order here. Just my 2-cent

Yuna also had permanent summons, and FFXII and XIII featured summons as temporary allies.
Let's not act as if permanent summons would be breaking any rules, the Franchise has been moving towards more permanent and interactive concepts of summoning for 20 years now; it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

[Saimeren]

How did they work in previous Final Fantasy games? You summoned them, they came out to do a big hit then disappeared.

I like that we attune to our Summons. It makes me feel like I'm actually borrowing their power for myself.

[Atamis]

Sorry friend but i don't agree at all. This summoner is far far far closer to an actual summoner. The egis were not summons.
If you want a Yuna style summoner I can understand your complaint, but the egis and tje AI that control them do not have the capability to emulate that.
I personally would rather get rid of carbuncle as well and only have it pop up to cast aegis and then promptly go away. The summoner I use as a benchmark summoner are the FF Tactics version which we also don't have.
I think this current version of partially BEING the summon is an alright middle ground that they could possibly improve upon.

[Rolder50]

Also the buffs to DPS for abilities has increased the damage output amazingly. It just burns through enemy HP like a wildfire. This is mostly because everything was buffed to make up for the lack of DoTs which I think is a good trade. While I'll miss the dots the damage they'd do has been more than made up for.

Just by the by, data from the extreme trials puts Summoner DPS on par with Bard and Machinist, and considerably below it's fellow casters RDM and BLM.

[Rika007]

All this thread proves is the continued fact that most summoner players do not agree on what makes a Final Fantasy summoner.

[rewd]

Sorry friend but i don't agree at all. This summoner is far far far closer to an actual summoner. The egis were not summons.
If you want a Yuna style summoner I can understand your complaint, but the egis and tje AI that control them do not have the capability to emulate that.
I personally would rather get rid of carbuncle as well and only have it pop up to cast aegis and then promptly go away. The summoner I use as a benchmark summoner are the FF Tactics version which we also don't have.
I think this current version of partially BEING the summon is an alright middle ground that they could possibly improve upon.

If you don't count Egis as summons, then a job that only lives up to its name at one (1) level out of 89, has a massive design problem. The biggest this game has ever seen.