Paladin weakest Tank now

[Undeadfire]

See, that's what sucks about this community. If I choose to tank in an MMO, my main focus should be keeping the entire party alive by holding aggro and having good survivability. If I wanted to worry about my DPS, I would choose a DPS class.

This mentality shows a lot with PLD and DRK. PLD has great survivability, but people shun them because of their low DPS. Meanwhile, DRK has garbage survivability as a tank, yet does the most DPS, so even thought it's a very broken tank class, there are people saying it's perfectly fine and doesn't need a rework.

This whole mentality of "all that matters is DPS" is pretty toxic, and honestly FFXIV is the only MMO I've played where that is the main focus regardless of your role.

It's nothing to do with mentality, it's people refusing to accept that's how jobs are designed on. Dark Knight is in fact really strong in Savage raids, only defeated in Dungeons by other tanks.

Tanks in 2.0 was tanks must tank.
Tanks in 3.0, people discovered DPS is better value, all the tanks dropping Tank stance and clearing Savage, etc without issues.
Tanks in 4.0 SE capitalized on the system and set them to always focus DPS.

It's the same for Healers, Conjurers quest line says you got to DPS.

[LittleImp]

See, that's what sucks about this community. If I choose to tank in an MMO, my main focus should be keeping the entire party alive by holding aggro and having good survivability. If I wanted to worry about my DPS, I would choose a DPS class.

This mentality shows a lot with PLD and DRK...

People shunned Paladin during week 1 of the tier because bringing it actively made clearing fights more difficult. Paladin's lower DPS output had to be made up somewhere else in the party, putting additional pressure on the entire party for literally no benefit.

This whole mentality of "all that matters is DPS" is pretty toxic, and honestly FFXIV is the only MMO I've played where that is the main focus regardless of your role.

You can blame the devs for that, as it's a direct consequence of the way the game is designed. Utility is so homogenized in this game, and encounter design very rarely leaves any room for innovative tactics that would create non-dps centric metas. With all of the tanks having an extremely similar toolkit, the amount of DPS they bring to the table is naturally the only thing that really matters.

As stated already, that is just first world issues. As long as it leads to the desired result, it does not matter on the long run of things.

There are a lot of people that raid in the first few weeks who aren't aiming for world first, and this issue would still affect them heavily. These balance issues are actually most punishing for players of lesser skill, as it takes significant amounts of optimization to meet what is considered the "minimum" contribution from a tank on P4S as PLD. There is no reason to accept a balance margin this bad.

[Anhra]

It is always about the damage because others told me so so it must be right.

No it is not. You either do sufficient damage, or you do not. That is all there is to it, anything above this, is just first world issues.

If you need optimisation on the damage department, then only because it is suppoest to cover for the fact that either you or someone in your Party, isn't up to the task and cant handle being inside a intense fight for as long as it is necessary.

[Absimiliard]

No it is not. You either do sufficient damage, or you do not. That is all there is to it, anything above this, is just first world issues.

If you need optimisation on the damage department, then only because it is suppoest to cover for the fact that either you or someone in your Party, isn't up to the task and cant handle being inside a intense fight for as long as it is necessary.

I'm afraid disagreeing with the way of things does not change them. The reality is that both tanks and healers are expected to do as much damage as possible with the kits they are given, in addition to living up to the other responsibilities of their roles. Everyone carries their weight. That's just how it is.

Tanks in 2.0 was tanks must tank.
Tanks in 3.0, people discovered DPS is better value, all the tanks dropping Tank stance and clearing Savage, etc without issues.

We'd been stance dancing since ARR. The practice became a bit more common in Heavensward, but it was already being utilized at least as early as the first Coils.

[FoxCh40s]

See, that's what sucks about this community. If I choose to tank in an MMO, my main focus should be keeping the entire party alive by holding aggro and having good survivability. If I wanted to worry about my DPS, I would choose a DPS class.

This mentality shows a lot with PLD and DRK. PLD has great survivability, but people shun them because of their low DPS. Meanwhile, DRK has garbage survivability as a tank, yet does the most DPS, so even thought it's a very broken tank class, there are people saying it's perfectly fine and doesn't need a rework.

This whole mentality of "all that matters is DPS" is pretty toxic, and honestly FFXIV is the only MMO I've played where that is the main focus regardless of your role.

Because in the end, it really is all that matters. Healers are so far overpowered in general that survivability on single target fights doesn't really mean anything. Dungeons, due to their extreme ease have been written off by most of the veterans as content that does not count.

The game is designed that all that really truly matters is dps.

[Anhra]

snip

You're missing the point. And the only thing that is expected out of anyone, is not dying.

As long as any dps-checks are being covered, it does not matter on the long run if a Tank does 4500 or 5100 damage on average (just a example), in the end, youre going to stick to the fight either way, even if someone isn't playing his optimal Rotation. As long as he doesn't die, all is good, and if you kick someone because of not providing optimal DPS, allow me to remind you that this can be considered as a valid reason to get you suspended.

[Absimiliard]

You're missing the point. And the only thing that is expected out of anyone, is not dying.

As long as any dps-checks are being covered, it does not matter on the long run if a Tank does 4500 or 5100 damage on average (just a example), in the end, youre going to stick to the fight either way, even if someone isn't playing his optimal Rotation. As long as he doesn't die, all is good, and if you kick someone because of not providing optimal DPS, allow me to remind you that this can be considered as a valid reason to get you suspended.

Ah, the "the new TOS says dismissing people for poor gameplay is a bannable offense" argument. Well, that aside, you're going to want to take up your aversion to the notion of tanks being expected to pull their weight with almost the entire rest of the community. I haven't missed your point. I am telling you the general community's view on the subject. You are expected to do more than simply not die. Actively dragging a group down with poor DPS, regardless of your role, is unacceptable. The faster a boss dies, the less chance of something going wrong. So why wouldn't people want more than the bare minimum? Dragging it out just makes you more likely to wipe.

[Senden]

I can't talk about tanking in end game but only of my experience levelling GNB and PLD simultaneously through the expansion, from a tanking standpoint, PLD felt like easy mode in comparison to running the same dungeons on GNB. It's a sad state if endgame tanking is all about the DPS output, PLD plays amazing and the only tank I found that can easily get through boss fights in dungeons if healer dies early on, healing themselves and DPS simultaneously without breaking a sweat.

[Anhra]

snip

As stated already, that is just first world issues. As long as it leads to the desired result, it does not matter on the long run of things. I hardly doubt that any average Player will notice it anyway if someone has sub-optimal dps unless youre running parsers which aren't even allowed in the first place.

And before YOU come up with the classic "its just a calculator, bro" excuse, the thing itself isn't the issue. It is People like you who use it as a means to alienate others from clearing content. Sometimes, you can't have everyone playing their Jobs Perfectly to the T, but as long as they know how to play their role on a acceptable level without dying, you can still get a clear out of it.

And if you can't adapt your own way of playing with those kind of People, it only shows that you aren't capable of playing perfectly yourself.