People advertising they're running Parsers

[caffe_macchiato]

I’m in full agreement. Casuals vs Raiders at this point.

Correct. Many casual players feel threatened and uncomfortable with this. There’s nothing wrong with that. The developers have always made a point to cater to casual players. It was a founding goal of ARR. Whether someone has completed Savage yet is of no relevance, as the content is open to all who have a subscription. Better yet, it’s even open to those without one; FFXIV has only been able to grow by broadening the audience of who might play an MMO. Seeing one’s own damage might be beneficial, but the social phenomenon of logging is a legitimate concern to the community at large. Said phenomenon is no longer limited to a small group of insular raiders, but instead is publicized openly on Twitch and other places. FFXIV streamers have huge audiences now. The FFXIV population is exploding in America due to it and recent events concerning World of Warcraft, which has a similar logging culture. Thus, the increase in popularity for parsing and logging culture is new, even if said things existed in a smaller form in the past.

They have a point when it comes to people harassing others with parse numbers. However, that is about it and the consensus is that people who are harassing others with parsers should be reported and banned.

The issue at hand isn’t just isolated incidents of harassment, it’s a culture that has taken root within the FFXIV community and occasionally bleeds over into the game proper as OP illustrated. The change in game culture is the root cause of what OP described. Square Enix only deals with the symptoms by addressing inappropriate expression in-game. Far worse behaviors exist outside of the game. People are doxxed and harassed just because of their parse. This happened in Japan to a prominent player, which caused Yoshida to take a firm stance against damage meters to say “just don’t do it”. FFlogs could take initiative against bad actors by making log uploads opt-in instead of opt-out. The webmaster could easily do this. The community could also crack down on harassment within its own Discords and forums, although this is harder. The easiest, albeit unpopular, solution would be for Square Enix to remove the battle log. Regardless, as OP illustrated, it’s a problem and a legitimate concern.

[Skiros]

Correct. Many casual players feel threatened and uncomfortable with this. There’s nothing wrong with that. The developers have always made a point to cater to casual players. It was a founding goal of ARR. Whether someone has completed Savage yet is of no relevance, as the content is open to all who have a subscription. Better yet, it’s even open to those without one; FFXIV has only been able to grow by broadening the audience of who might play an MMO. Seeing one’s own damage might be beneficial, but the social phenomenon of logging is a legitimate concern to the community at large. Said phenomenon is no longer limited to a small group of insular raiders, but instead is publicized openly on Twitch and other places. FFXIV streamers have huge audiences now. The FFXIV population is exploding in America due to it and recent events concerning World of Warcraft, which has a similar logging culture. Thus, the increase in popularity for parsing and logging culture is new, even if said things existed in a smaller form in the past.


The issue at hand isn’t just isolated incidents of harassment, it’s a culture that has taken root within the FFXIV community and occasionally bleeds over into the game proper as OP illustrated. The change in game culture is the root cause of what OP described. Square Enix only deals with the symptoms by addressing inappropriate expression in-game. Far worse behaviors exist outside of the game. People are doxxed and harassed just because of their parse. This happened in Japan to a prominent player, which caused Yoshida to take a firm stance against damage meters to say “just don’t do it”. FFlogs could take initiative against bad actors by making log uploads opt-in instead of opt-out. The webmaster could easily do this. The community could also crack down on harassment within its own Discords and forums, although this is harder. The easiest, albeit unpopular, solution would be for Square Enix to remove the battle log. Regardless, as OP illustrated, it’s a problem and a legitimate concern.

You said a lot of words but you have not explained why people should adjust for someone's insecurity. Sounds more like a personality issue to me. I never gave a damn if I underperform and play like a monkey in a video game that I don't tryhard in. I don't care if I perform the worst in Destiny or shooters and I certainly am not threatened by speedrunners completing my favorite games in less than a tenth the amount of time I spend getting through the first zone. If hardcore raiders parsing high makes you insecure that's your problem, not theirs.

[Yahallo]

Correct. Many casual players feel threatened and uncomfortable with this. There’s nothing wrong with that. The developers have always made a point to cater to casual players. It was a founding goal of ARR. Whether someone has completed Savage yet is of no relevance, as the content is open to all who have a subscription. Better yet, it’s even open to those without one; FFXIV has only been able to grow by broadening the audience of who might play an MMO. Seeing one’s own damage might be beneficial, but the social phenomenon of logging is a legitimate concern to the community at large. Said phenomenon is no longer limited to a small group of insular raiders, but instead is publicized openly on Twitch and other places. FFXIV streamers have huge audiences now. The FFXIV population is exploding in America due to it and recent events concerning World of Warcraft, which has a similar logging culture. Thus, the increase in popularity for parsing and logging culture is new, even if said things existed in a smaller form in the past.


The issue at hand isn’t just isolated incidents of harassment, it’s a culture that has taken root within the FFXIV community and occasionally bleeds over into the game proper as OP illustrated. The change in game culture is the root cause of what OP described. Square Enix only deals with the symptoms by addressing inappropriate expression in-game. Far worse behaviors exist outside of the game. People are doxxed and harassed just because of their parse. This happened in Japan to a prominent player, which caused Yoshida to take a firm stance against damage meters to say “just don’t do it”. FFlogs could take initiative against bad actors by making log uploads opt-in instead of opt-out. The webmaster could easily do this. The community could also crack down on harassment within its own Discords and forums, although this is harder. The easiest, albeit unpopular, solution would be for Square Enix to remove the battle log. Regardless, as OP illustrated, it’s a problem and a legitimate concern.

The only issue I see is the harassment. If there was no harassment, then there would be no issue. There is nothing that needs to be done against parsing in general, only the harassment. I don't see anything wrong with parsing culture if people aren't being harassed over their parses. Furthermore, there is already a solution, just report the people harassing.

[IdowhatIwant]

Correct. Many casual players feel threatened and uncomfortable with this. There’s nothing wrong with that. The developers have always made a point to cater to casual players. It was a founding goal of ARR. Whether someone has completed Savage yet is of no relevance, as the content is open to all who have a subscription. Better yet, it’s even open to those without one; FFXIV has only been able to grow by broadening the audience of who might play an MMO. Seeing one’s own damage might be beneficial, but the social phenomenon of logging is a legitimate concern to the community at large. Said phenomenon is no longer limited to a small group of insular raiders, but instead is publicized openly on Twitch and other places. FFXIV streamers have huge audiences now. The FFXIV population is exploding in America due to it and recent events concerning World of Warcraft, which has a similar logging culture. Thus, the increase in popularity for parsing and logging culture is new, even if said things existed in a smaller form in the past.

If many casual players felt threatened by this they would have quit a long time ago. Parsing and FF logs have been around since ARR.
Now if SE would give us a useful UI that tells what stat values are worth rather than you have 2372 crit that would be nice. But until then we have to use parsers just to know what our % chance to crit is.

The issue at hand isn’t just isolated incidents of harassment, it’s a culture that has taken root within the FFXIV community and occasionally bleeds over into the game proper as OP illustrated. The change in game culture is the root cause of what OP described. Square Enix only deals with the symptoms by addressing inappropriate expression in-game. Far worse behaviors exist outside of the game. People are doxxed and harassed just because of their parse. This happened in Japan to a prominent player, which caused Yoshida to take a firm stance against damage meters to say “just don’t do it”. FFlogs could take initiative against bad actors by making log uploads opt-in instead of opt-out. The webmaster could easily do this. The community could also crack down on harassment within its own Discords and forums, although this is harder. The easiest, albeit unpopular, solution would be for Square Enix to remove the battle log. Regardless, as OP illustrated, it’s a problem and a legitimate concern.

I will be honest, some one picking on me because my DPS is low in a video game is not anything that concerns me. It would not affect my life inside or outside the game in any way. Picking on some one for there DPS is just petty. Who doxxes some one over there DPS in a game and who is actually going to care. Lets drive across country to egg that 3k dps ninja. Do you really read what you are typing this is absolutely stupid. This is not a problem, this is not a concern. Thank you for reminding me that this game makes me deal with dumb people as I forget that some times.

[Nabril]

Correct. Many casual players feel threatened and uncomfortable with this. There’s nothing wrong with that. The developers have always made a point to cater to casual players. It was a founding goal of ARR. Whether someone has completed Savage yet is of no relevance, as the content is open to all who have a subscription. Better yet, it’s even open to those without one; FFXIV has only been able to grow by broadening the audience of who might play an MMO. Seeing one’s own damage might be beneficial, but the social phenomenon of logging is a legitimate concern to the community at large. Said phenomenon is no longer limited to a small group of insular raiders, but instead is publicized openly on Twitch and other places. FFXIV streamers have huge audiences now. The FFXIV population is exploding in America due to it and recent events concerning World of Warcraft, which has a similar logging culture. Thus, the increase in popularity for parsing and logging culture is new, even if said things existed in a smaller form in the past.

There's a very easy solution to this- get rid of EX. That's all you have to do. Then everyone is casual. Keep everything easy and you get no elites. Sure harassing is wrong, but that has nothing to do with parsers. Bad people use parsers, but so do good people. Bad people raid, but so do good people. You will ALWAYS have people who harass. Banning a parser won't change that. Harassment in this game is not limited to using parsers. I've been sexually harassed by people in Limsa Laminsa- do we ban everyone from going there and delete the entire city? No, because that would not get rid of harassment in this game.

Parsers don't turn people into jerks. They were already that way. But if you want to keep everything casual then we could delete Ex and then you'd get rid of the mean raiders, but you would also get rid of the nice raiders. Banning things isn't the answer. I want a parser. I like a parser. It makes me a good player, but due to all the hoops you have to run through to get it running and keep it running with every update drives me nuts. So I don't raid. But that's me. If I could find a parser that was easy to install and run and keep working, I'd use it in a heartbeat because it does not modify the game code nor does it make me a bad person just by using it.

[Axxion]

i mean, yoshi knows about it. all it boils down to. dont be a prick about it.

[Rinhi]

casual players don't know and will never know what parsing is or what it means unless someone explains it to them
you're projecting your dislike of parsers onto a huuuge number of players that don't even know about this "severe" issue

[Felixforever]

Mention one in a party with me and i will report you as soon as we finish, GM's can sort it out.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

Mention one in a party with me and i will report you as soon as we finish, GM's can sort it out.

As long as you're not in my savage parties, I suppose. And this isn't even about someone potentially mentioning a parser.

Typically people who are adamantly against parsers aren't that great gameplay-wise. Major red flag for me.

[Skiros]

As long as you're not in my savage parties, I suppose. And this isn't even about someone potentially mentioning a parser.

Typically people who are adamantly against parsers aren't that great gameplay-wise. Major red flag for me.

I'm fine with parsers but I really don't like gameplay third-party plugins (like Cactbot). I've been forced to use triggers for prog before and it was an unenjoyable experience because I didn't feel like I actually learned anything. People should not conflate parsing and the actual gameplay-impacting plugins like Cactbot. The former IMHO is totally harmless.

I can see why people are wary of third party tools coming from WoW but they need to realize that parsing by itself is very different from things like DBM.