6.0 Ninja Constructive Criticism and Feedback

[Xenon_S]

Intro and Perspective

I've played ninja since 2.55 and have mained it all throughout HW, SB, and ShB.
I am by no means a high end player, I have not participated in any of the ultimates, in fact due to RL circumstances I have taken long hiatus in SB and ShB.
The most "cutting edge" content I have done was week 1 prog of sigmascape in SB.
That said, I do feel I am decently familiar with the job on an average player level, and after bringing it up to lv90, I want to share some thoughts.


The Good

The ninja job fantasy is better than ever. Each expansion it really feels like our mastery of ninjutsu has progressed in a meaningful way.
In lv50-60, mastery of the wind has allowed the use of Armour Crush and Huraijin.
In lv60-70, mastery of the mudras has allowed the use of Tenchijin to rapid fire ninjutsus, with the ninki system expanding our arsenal.
In lv70-80, mastery of water, ice and fire are manifested in the form of meisui and the 2 kassatsu enhanced ninjutsus, plus we got bunshin to round out the ninki skills.
And now in Endwalker, Bunshin and Wind combined to form Phantom Kamaitachi, mastery of the Earth has lead to Hollow Nozuchi, and mastery of the lightning enables Raijuu attacks.

In terms of job concept and aesthetics, I'm of the opinion that Ninja has reached a new height.
Ninja looks awesome to play, constantly throwing out myriads of different ninjutsus, darting around shrouded in thunder and all, but...


The Bad

In terms of actually playing the job, it doesn't feel that good, plus the skill designs themselves are somewhat questionable.

Starting off with Huraijin. In its current iteration, it is strictly a recovery tool. You use it when you drop Huton in combat, either when you die/rez or after long transitions, and is spared the oppurtunity cost of hard casting a 3-step mudra. The skill design is lazy, and is the result trying to compensate for the removal of skills from earlier levels.

Then we have Phantom Kamaitachi, which can only be used once per Bunshin, and costs 1 Bunshin stack. Considering Bunshin+Aeolian Edge is 400+160 = 560 potency, the Raijuus are 400+160 and 450+160 respectively, on a cursory glance there does not seem to be a major incentive to use this skill.

There is also hollow nozuchi, procing off existant doton. This skill is great on paper, but requires enemies to actually be in doton to be effective. Due to the added damage, having a non-cooperative tank becomes even more punishing for the ninja during dungeons.


And finally the Forked and Fleeting Raijuu gap closers. The raijuu ready buff is immediately cancelled if you do a melee weapon skill, meaning your options after casting raiton is very limited. In its current iteration, in most cases, casting raiton means you are forced to use the raijuu and commit to being in melee range for the next 4-5 seconds, and you don't even have the option to go max melee range for certain mechanics. Previously ninja's flexibility of disengaging from boss for a short moment for mehanics was the highlight, now this option is practically lost.

Note that this forced inflexibility is worse than, say, DRG jump or BLM casting.
To my limited experience, Dragoons have some leeways on when they can choose to jump, while BLM can choose where to settle down and cast, all without losing damage.
With how Ninja's trick attack incentivizes cramming the damage within a 15second window, using raiton/raijuu outside of trick for "flexibility" is a damage loss.

For a fast paced melee job that previously thrived on flexibility, to stripping that away, and on level 90 no less, is jarring and doesn't feel good.


My Proposed Solutions

For the raijuus, first make it so that the buff isn't cancelled by using other melee GCDs. Second, decouple Forked and Fleeting so that they don't combo into each other, let Forked Raijuu be the gap closer, and Fleeting Raijuu be a melee range GCD.

In practice it would look something like this:
- Raiton grants 2 stacks of "Raijuu Ready" for 15 seconds (up to 6 stacks, buff will not be interrupted by any other action)
- Forked Raiju: Gap closer, costs 1 stack of raijuu ready
- Fleeting Raiju: Melee weaponskill, costs 1 stack of raijuu ready


For Hollow Nozuchi, simply expanding the range of doton would be great. AST's earthly star was already increased from 8 to 20 radius, increasing Doton's from 5 to 8 shouldn't be too much of an ask.

For Phantom Kamaitachi, increasing its potency so it is a more obvious incentive to use would be good.


For Huraijin, make it into an off GCD ability with 1 min CD, granting or extending huton duration by 15 seconds. If it is used while huton is alreay active, grants a buff "enhanced fuma shuriken", and increases the damage of the next Fuma Shuriken.
The idea is to retain its function as a recovery tool, but also adding another layer of interaction when used for damage, honestly the fuma animation is nice and a shame to let it go to waste.

[Kolsykol]

I don't rly get why Phantom Kamaitachi can't just refresh Huton completely.
Like why 10s at all lol?
Just make it refresh to 60s.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't rly get why Phantom Kamaitachi can't just refresh Huton completely.
Like why 10s at all lol?
Just make it refresh to 60s.

So that you could just Armor Crush only thrice per 5 minutes?

Yeah, no. Not unless they're going to repurpose AC. And even then that's 2 AE-AC potency gaps' worth of extra potency given to Phantom Kamaitachi... why?

I have to strongly agree with these points and suggestions. I would add to have the raiju combos bring the character to max melee range, instead of minimal melee range as well.

But really, the gap closer on raiju should be removed alltogether if i had a say in it.

I'd honestly rather they just make it not be interrupted by your main combo, etc., as much as that would unfortunately make things less complex. I feel like NIN deserves to have the most bursty movement of any job, so long as it's prepped for.

Though, I also wouldn't hate it having a single ranged GCD before gap-closing, or the gap-closer being oGCD after a ranged GCD, etc., since I also feel NIN should be better equipped to deal with downtime. I say this as one who mains Monk, who I nonetheless think should have perhaps the very least capacity to fill melee downtime (outside of perhaps DRG).

[Kolsykol]

So that you could just Armor Crush only thrice per 5 minutes?

Yeah, no. Not unless they're going to repurpose AC. And even then that's 2 AE-AC potency gaps' worth of extra potency given to Phantom Kamaitachi... why?

Honestly I never liked Armor Crush as your Huton refresh, it's really bizarre.
It sounds and looks like a skill that should reduce the enemies armor lol.

Imo either Phantom should refresh it or Hurajin should replace Armor Crush ( and add a fresh Huton if none is active already ).

[Shurrikhan]

Honestly I never liked Armor Crush as your Huton refresh, it's really bizarre.

Ha, agreed. That said, I don't want to turn NIN into even more of a 1-2-3 ad nauseum job.

Personally, I'd rather half give NIN the Monk treatment in regards to GL. For instance, give NIN 10% Haste by default and then give us like a 24s duration further 10% Haste via a returned Dancing Edge. Huton instead simply becomes Bunshin (though back on a duration with intentional synergy with Dancing Blade and anti-synergy with other Ninjutsu casts and of course with Kassatsu), with a later trait and ability (Enhanced Bunshin and Phantom Kamaitachi, perhaps as a two-part combo) making it very much worth using once per minute in the spaces between Ninjutsu bursts, especially if one needs to be away from the boss for further GCDs.

For further rotational context, as not to be stuck with 1-2-3 (and the occasional 1-2-4 via Dancing Edge, which should be allowed to fade before Ninjutsu, since Attack Speed can't affect Ninjutsu's fixed GCD), return Shadowfang as a two-step combo. If need be, work Armor Crush back in there somehow, likely as a fellow two-step (but, honestly, it has the least interesting animation, so I'd not be too disappointed if it, rather than Shadow Fang or Dancing Edge, took a hiatus).

[Quyn]

I have to strongly agree with these points and suggestions. I would add to have the raiju combos bring the character to max melee range, instead of minimal melee range as well.

But really, the gap closer on raiju should be removed alltogether if i had a say in it.

[RowanLauron]

I have to strongly agree with these points and suggestions. I would add to have the raiju combos bring the character to max melee range, instead of minimal melee range as well.

But really, the gap closer on raiju should be removed to if i had a say in it.

This. I love the new abilities, but they make it very clunky to play and the constant gap closing is actually jarring and very annoying. I am constantly repositioning my range after use. May actually try a different melee at this point.

[Tenryou]

So unlike most people i don't hate Forked/Fleeting Raiju but it would be better as an OGCD with stacks from raiton as was stated OR PERHAPS a ninki resource instead.I know mentioning it becoming a ninki skill probably will upset people but it has similar potency to Bhavacakra I also think it gives it a more flexible use there. As for phantom kamatachi and doton i agree with the mentioned suggestions. Doton especially so that i've considered a macro to tell them "DIRTY PATCH IS GOOD STAND IT IN IT."

Hurajin is situational but i think it's good as is for when down time hits or you die and need to get back in the game w/o murda waste. would say make it a smaller GCD timer tho.
Oh and when i say move it to ninki resource i mean for it to be a stand alone skill not tied to Raiton

[NobleWinter]

The enemies we fight get larger every expansion. The ground target aoes for every class could definitely stand to be bigger.