UNDERCUTTING....

[SirOleas]

Alright. I'm back from undercutting mythril ore by 1 gil. I should see profits sooner than everyone else so long as I don't get undercut. Of course at that point I would just wait for the cheapest guy to get bought out because....It's not that big of a deal. I'll just go mine more mythril to fill my retainer with once my current batch sales.

Logic. Oh wait...

[Krausus]

to much bickering and not enough cutting in this thread

[Geo]

Holy troll thread

[Themule]

lol, i say i'm annoyed with undercutting and suddenly everyone has a phd in economics. fix UI, punish botters, geeze guys, does anyone really disagree with this?! Mass undercutting is just a symptom...we all want this game to be as good as it can be. i dont want to tell new players to just "deal with it" if the system can be improved...
and right now there are very clear things leading to mass undercutting that can easily be improved...

ps. if this economy crashes, ffxiv ends, its pretty simple and VERY non-realworld. this game will not survive an economic crisis in its current state. 2.0 has to be polished or its over...period.

[Mortikhan]

1) People wanted an AH. They got one. Congrats.

2) Crafting and Gathering have both gotten easier since the beginning of the game. Especially since last patch. Expect a lot more competition for NQ items and a moderate increase in the amount of competition for HQ stuff.

3) Botting is not the reason why prices are going down. Botting has always been around. The economy is falling out because any numb-nut monkey with some time can craft now. Thank SE for that.

4) HQ class specific items will fall in price over the next few months as well. It is the nature of the beast. When something first comes out it gets exploited till the market is saturated and it is not worth the trouble to make any more. buyers know this and wait for a better price. They are just letting the MWs take their natural course. Market bulls stay ahead of that curve and exploit it as much as possible.

5) Undercutting is a way to make quick easy gil. Even if only by 1 gill. Wait it out and wait for the demand to exceed the supply or compete for buyers.

6) If you think that producing HQ items is very hard then you are wrong. It is slightly difficult at best. No real decision making or risk is made for crafting anymore. All you really have to decide on is weather to take the risk to HQ or just complete the item. If you are having trouble popping out finished products then you need to farm more, get better crafting gear, read the crafting forums here and/or do some research into HQing since 1.22.

7) People are not obsessed with HQ in FFXIV...not like FFXI. This is because crafting is (more so than ever after 1.22) much easier to do and more people leveled their crafts earlier on. This situation will probably not change in the MWs until a level increase comes out or they offer a specialization option for crafting classes.

[Matsume]

7) People are not obsessed with HQ in FFXIV...not like FFXI. This is because crafting is (more so than ever after 1.22) much easier to do and more people leveled their crafts earlier on. This situation will probably not change in the MWs until a level increase comes out or they offer a specialization option for crafting classes.

It is also because stats are relatively worthless other than main hand damage (ifrit in reindeer outfits?) and because of PLing. You can PL to 50 in a day, why would you need HQ gear before lvl 50? Hell, why would you need ANY gear before lvl 50 if you PL? Hell, you don't even need to PL to avoid getting gear because stats are relatively worthless to begin with and lvling is so easy. I got my whm and blm to 50 without having to buy new gear more than twice on the way up. What's up with that?

[Mortikhan]

It is also because stats are relatively worthless other than main hand damage (ifrit in reindeer outfits?) and because of PLing. You can PL to 50 in a day, why would you need HQ gear before lvl 50? Hell, why would you need ANY gear before lvl 50 if you PL? Hell, you don't even need to PL to avoid getting gear because stats are relatively worthless to begin with and lvling is so easy. I got my whm and blm to 50 without having to buy new gear more than twice on the way up. What's up with that?

Plenty of factors contribute to it and have since the game started. I was more referring to the recent affects on the MWs. Leveling and PLing has been around for quite awhile now also. With the ability to gain levels and have instant guaranteed success at crafting to level my point was about people not paying much higher prices for something when they can simply level it on their own. Would that take time? Sure, but not nearly as much as before 1.22. The synth system is much easier to have more control over success and failure now and even one crafting class leveled to 45 or multiple at 30 can now boost your effective leveling capabilities 10 fold with the other ones and remainder of the current ones. Boosting quality is easy for XP. Success is a forgone conclusion except at the very beginning when you start leveling any crafting. All those who were not willing to go beyond 45 are enticed to do so now and that would take less than a few days if properly motivated.

What does that net? A bunch of people who never bothered with crafting or were not using it as a source of income now flooding the market with massive amounts of raw materials, base materials and finished products. They still don't see it as their main source of income so they don't bother trying to compete over price or even keep the price within range. They still have their other means of making gil so if they sell low or don't sell at all is really irrelevant. The bottom line is they don't need the crafters for anything anymore. Now they don't have to pay big money. They just make the NQ version and wait for the market to flood with HQ versions and get one at a much lower price.

[Achtzen]

1) People wanted an AH. They got one. Congrats.

Having either an AH or Market wards isn't going to change or stop people from competing/"undercutting" prices. I don't see a any problem from the current system aside the inability to selectively/filter search for either +1 or normal goods.

6) If you think that producing HQ items is very hard then you are wrong. It is slightly difficult at best. No real decision making or risk is made for crafting anymore. All you really have to decide on is weather to take the risk to HQ or just complete the item. If you are having trouble popping out finished products then you need to farm more, get better crafting gear, read the crafting forums here and/or do some research into HQing since 1.22.

Easier to craft HQ gear yes. But the availability of HQ materials and how many beneficial materia are melded is where the greatest risk is and it significantly affect its final selling price. That is where the money lies regardless of the number of crafters in game. Greater risks reap greater rewards. You can name your price on that regardless of what the current market is for that item.

Sadly you don't see a lot of this anyway as crafter's tend to produce the HQ item without attachments and don't risk any loss and just sell it and leave it to the buyer to take the risk afterwards.

The risk is there, people don't tend to take it and take the loss.

[Mortikhan]

Having either an AH or Market wards isn't going to change or stop people from competing/"undercutting" prices. I don't see a any problem from the current system aside the inability to selectively/filter search for either +1 or normal goods.



Easier to craft HQ gear yes. But the availability of HQ materials and how many beneficial materia are melded is where the greatest risk is and it significantly affect its final selling price. That is where the money lies regardless of the number of crafters in game. Greater risks reap greater rewards. You can name your price on that regardless of what the current market is for that item.

Sadly you don't see a lot of this anyway as crafter's tend to produce the HQ item without attachments and don't risk any loss and just sell it and leave it to the buyer to take the risk afterwards.

The risk is there, people don't tend to take it and take the loss.

I disagree on the first point. The original MWs were about what you were willing to pay. If you did not like the price you saw they you shopped around a bit more to find a better price. If you were lazy then you burned a whole lot of gil. Now the system is price comparison without ever setting foot in the wards. Is it easier and faster for the buyer? Absolutely. Is it much harder to snipe at your prices as a seller? Definitely. I have no issue with them doing that but I have no real cause or need to use the MWs other than a convenience for something really inexpensive that is easy to farm up that I would rather just buy and be done with. I just did not want the "lounging around at the AH waiting for a good deal to pop up" mentality I saw in FFXI. An AH in any game should not be the focal point of the game. I know I am in the minority for that opinion but hey whatever .

On your second point...it would make and will make more sense when people can put their name on the gear as a crafter. You buy a piece of my gear for example and my name is on it then you know who to contact for seating materia if you are not a crafter yourself. Repeat business is always a good thing . Other than that I can see why they don't do that. Because you never know what people have and what materia they want in that gear. What is useful materia to you might be the complete opposite for someone else looking to build another way.

[Noir]

1) People wanted an AH. They got one. Congrats.

2) Crafting and Gathering have both gotten easier since the beginning of the game. Especially since last patch. Expect a lot more competition for NQ items and a moderate increase in the amount of competition for HQ stuff.

3) Botting is not the reason why prices are going down. Botting has always been around. The economy is falling out because any numb-nut monkey with some time can craft now. Thank SE for that.

4) HQ class specific items will fall in price over the next few months as well. It is the nature of the beast. When something first comes out it gets exploited till the market is saturated and it is not worth the trouble to make any more. buyers know this and wait for a better price. They are just letting the MWs take their natural course. Market bulls stay ahead of that curve and exploit it as much as possible.

5) Undercutting is a way to make quick easy gil. Even if only by 1 gill. Wait it out and wait for the demand to exceed the supply or compete for buyers.

6) If you think that producing HQ items is very hard then you are wrong. It is slightly difficult at best. No real decision making or risk is made for crafting anymore. All you really have to decide on is weather to take the risk to HQ or just complete the item. If you are having trouble popping out finished products then you need to farm more, get better crafting gear, read the crafting forums here and/or do some research into HQing since 1.22.

7) People are not obsessed with HQ in FFXIV...not like FFXI. This is because crafting is (more so than ever after 1.22) much easier to do and more people leveled their crafts earlier on. This situation will probably not change in the MWs until a level increase comes out or they offer a specialization option for crafting classes.

Prices going down!??? Whaatrrt? A food cost 14-20k! And I see weapons costing millions. Where are prices going down!????