UNDERCUTTING....

[Wolfie]

Doesn't really matter if the mat cost is X, and the finished item is Y.

Sometimes in life you pay for labor, and convenience, me personally I'll pay to have both.

Either way, undercutting by more than 1gil is just silly, why not make more gil if you can....

Why have competitors when I can drive them out of business by selling low and fast?

[TheVedis]

Why have competitors when I can drive them out of business by selling low and fast?

is it really competition when your losing money to do?

Can you really be proud of losing of losing millions to stop someone else from selling something before you?

[Matsume]

is it really competition when your losing money to do?

Can you really be proud of losing of losing millions to stop someone else from selling something before you?

Ontop of that Wolfie's loss is some other crafters gain and a compounded loss on herself.

Example: Wolfie undercuts a HQ raw material. Crafter buys cheap HQ raw material. Crafter makes HQ item. Crafter sells HQ item for exorbitant price to Wolfie. Wolfie pays exorbitant price for HQ item made with her own raw material Crafter wins two fold, wolfie loses two fold. Of course this doesn't apply to wolfie on the condition that wolfie doesn't buy crafted items, but it applies to the next person in line. It's just a thought...

[Wolfie]

is it really competition when your losing money to do?

Can you really be proud of losing of losing millions to stop someone else from selling something before you?

If I'm losing money selling the item, then I won't sell it.

But let me come up with a fictional example. An item costs 1mil to make, and it sells for 10mil because few people make it and they've all decided that it should be priced at 10mil.

I come along and sell my item for 8mil. I'm still making a big profit, and I can ensure that I'm the only one selling the item now. Nobody is going to buy it for 10mil. Those other people are either going to have to bow out, or drop their prices to compete with me -- at which point I get to decide again if I want to drop my price and drive them out, or if it's no longer worth it for me to make and sell this item.

During this whole process, I'm not losing anything. I'm the only one making pure profit.

[Matsume]

If I'm losing money selling the item, then I won't sell it.

But let me come up with a fictional example. An item costs 1mil to make, and it sells for 10mil because few people make it and they've all decided that it should be priced at 10mil.

I come along and sell my item for 8mil. I'm still making a big profit, and I can ensure that I'm the only one selling the item now. Nobody is going to buy it for 10mil. Those other people are either going to have to bow out, or drop their prices to compete with me -- at which point I get to decide again if I want to drop my price and drive them out, or if it's no longer worth it for me to make and sell this item.

During this whole process, I'm not losing anything. I'm the only one making pure profit.

Then one day someone comes along and sells the item for 1mil and you never get to sell it again...TRUE STORY

[Geo]

If I'm losing money selling the item, then I won't sell it.

But let me come up with a fictional example. An item costs 1mil to make, and it sells for 10mil because few people make it and they've all decided that it should be priced at 10mil.

I come along and sell my item for 8mil. I'm still making a big profit, and I can ensure that I'm the only one selling the item now. Nobody is going to buy it for 10mil. Those other people are either going to have to bow out, or drop their prices to compete with me -- at which point I get to decide again if I want to drop my price and drive them out, or if it's no longer worth it for me to make and sell this item.

During this whole process, I'm not losing anything. I'm the only one making pure profit.

This is the dumbest comment ever. Because, more people will continue to undercut and drive the price to the ground. Look at the big picture genius, if they buy it for 8mill they'll buy it for 9,999,999 gil as well.

Undercutting is fine.... and great.

Undercutting by 10-20% is stupid it drives the price down way too fast, and eventually the items aren't worth the time and effort.]

And this is why I stay in the double/triple meld business, because people don't like chance money. And we make our own prices.

[Abauge_Goga]

I liked the FFXI AH better. People will always undercut because:
- there are only a few items way overpriced (eg. Harlequin gear for 10 M because it's the only one up)
- there are too many of them and the only way to make sure yours sells fast (key word) is to undercut. Most people like to have the gil right away instead of waiting for 1 week only to realize someone is selling 5 k cheaper. (eg. materia gear such as belts or wristlets)
- last reason: people stumble over something they only planned on using temporarily, therefore not looking to make a profit, so they don't mind undercutting to get some gil back

You can't solve undercutting because everyone is doing it.

[Themule]

I love how people keep saying "deal with it" or "stop whining". Everyone HAS dealt with it and nobody is saying that SE should do something about undercutting itself. The points that are trying to be made are that the current system is rewarding normal people for botting and punishing people that actually do the work by having an asinine system for selling and reselling. Things that take hours to produce or gather aren't being sold cheap because the person is nice or the person can make them cheaper. Its because people with bots spend little to no time doing the work to actually gather/produce said items so they could care less about how much they sell them for because they just need to make room to sell more. Most of us have had to "deal with it" and HAVE, and are still rich as a result. I'm just sick of spending so much time "dealing with it" in the wards by repricing things to make room on my retainers and I don't want new players to just have to "deal with it". The goal here is to either encourage SE to crack down on bots, make a more streamlined market system or...hopefully both. Us players are responsible right now for having these discussions as we are largely responsible for how this game turns out. By the time 2.0 hits, these issues need to be addressed or people are going to say "they had a year+ to iron out these kinks and a whole player base full of feedback that told new players to just deal with it". I want this game to be as great as it can be!

[Matsume]

I love how people keep saying "deal with it" or "stop whining". Everyone HAS dealt with it and nobody is saying that SE should do something about undercutting itself. The points that are trying to be made are that the current system is rewarding normal people for botting and punishing people that actually do the work by having an asinine system for selling and reselling. Things that take hours to produce or gather aren't being sold cheap because the person is nice or the person can make them cheaper. Its because people with bots spend little to no time doing the work to actually gather/produce said items. Most of us have had to "deal with it" and have and are still rich as a result. I'm just sick of spending so much time "dealing with it" in the wards by repricing things to make room on my retainers.

The goal here is to either encourage SE to crack down on bots, make a more streamlined market system or...hopefully both. By the time 2.0 hits, these issues need to be addressed or people are going to say "they had a year+ to iron out these kinks and a whole player base full of feedback that told new players to just deal with it". I want this game to be as great as it can be!

QFT, SE just needs to add fishable monsters and aggro mobs between and near gathering nodes that force players to use the stealth function (something a bot could'nt recognize) to fix gathering bot issues.

As far as leveling bots and farming bots i'm sure a similarly easy method could be implemented but I havn't thought of one yet.

[TheVedis]

QFT, SE just needs to add fishable monsters and aggro mobs between and near gathering nodes that force players to use the stealth function (something a bot could'nt recognize) to fix gathering bot issues.

As far as leveling bots and farming bots i'm sure a similarly easy method could be implemented but I havn't thought of one yet.

agro mobs at gathering points wont stop the new hack/bot ive seen people using lately

one that lets them gather the same node over and over again til it despawns

theyd only need find that 1 noed that isnt in agro range, and refind it every hour or so

and putting agro mobs at EVERY node would just annoy all crafters too much