Endwalker was "meh" (for reasons other than technical issues)

[BrokentoothMarch]

You were being hyperbolic, now you're being rude. You should stop.

We're two different bunboys, trust me.

Anyways, I won't apologize. The problem is that you were being pretty dismissive with the accusation of hyperbole by throwing a single line into a vacuum while completely ignoring the surrounding elements which is, well, an inherently disingenuous thing to do. You clearly went far enough as to fight the final trial since you knew about her remark about Dynamis after the LB3, yet still seemed to act as if ignorant to the knowledge leading up to, during, and after that point. Short of having very selective attention, you seemed to have cherrypicked this line and only this line in order to downplay it's importance and therefore ridicule the theory that tackled it. Were you genuinely being passive-aggressive? I cannot, with authority, say one way or the other. That being said, the optics point towards "Yes", so you're going to get some snark back.

Was it ever stated how we charge up/ use LB though? I know it is based on aether but that area was filled with dynamis so perhaps she was surprised we LBed with dynamis instead? If we LB by drawing energy from around us it would make sense why it would use aether most of the time.

It was, I believe, stated to be generated from excess aether expenditure from the party or an empowerment gained through the Echo. I will concede the point that the writers have been pretty cagey about how LB is specifically referred to in the lore, but it's connection with aether is rather strong. Assuming I play devil's advocate and that this one single time it worked with dynamis (even though I think it shouldn't considering how they've stressed how fundamentally different aether and dynamis are, not to mention that the WoL's being able to channel dynamis on a dime is questionable at best), I'd still need to face the fact as to why all it took was the Scions and maybe some survivors that are aware of our work at the end of the universe was enough Dynamis to repel her assault, but no less than sixteen worlds were unable to have enough will to live to subvert it in the way we have. I understand that those worlds were torn and dealing with horrific events, but has Eorzea not been locked in borderline nonstop war at worst and political machinations and assassinations at best? If any form of turmoil somehow demeans the will to survive of an entire species, I can't think of a reason we were spared what all those worlds had to endure.

As you can tell, I'm a bit averse to dynamis and it's existence in the story. I feel like it was a plot device to explain how something so horrific and powerful could subvert masters of aether like the Ancients.

Excuse the tangent, this really took my goat. Haha.

[Anatha]

I just pointed out it was hyperbole to make the conclusion that was being made. You had a conniption fit over it. It was inappropriate. Like I said, don't do that. I cannot make that more to the point.

[BrokentoothMarch]

I just pointed out it was hyperbole to make the conclusion that was being made. You had a conniption fit over it. It was inappropriate. Like I said, don't do that. I cannot make that more to the point.

So now we're moving the goalpost and my pointing out that your accusation of hyperbole was dismissive (and nonsensical) is a "conniption fit". Good talk.

[Miles064]

It was, I believe, stated to be generated from excess aether expenditure from the party or an empowerment gained through the Echo. I will concede the point that the writers have been pretty cagey about how LB is specifically referred to in the lore, but it's connection with aether is rather strong. Assuming I play devil's advocate and that this one single time it worked with dynamis (even though I think it shouldn't considering how they've stressed how fundamentally different aether and dynamis are, not to mention that the WoL's being able to channel dynamis on a dime is questionable at best), I'd still need to face the fact as to why all it took was the Scions and maybe some survivors that are aware of our work at the end of the universe was enough Dynamis to repel her assault, but no less than sixteen worlds were unable to have enough will to live to subvert it in the way we have. I understand that those worlds were torn and dealing with horrific events, but has Eorza not been locked in borderline nonstop war at worse and political machinations and assassinations at best? If any form of turmoil somehow demeans the will to survive of an entire species, I can't think of a reason we were spared what all those worlds had to endure.

As you can tell, I'm a bit averse to dynamis and it's existence in the story. I feel like it was a plot device to explain how something so horrific and powerful could subvert masters of aether like the Ancients.

Excuse the tangent, this really took my goat. Haha.

I can agree with that. Dynamis being something we had never heard of til this point made it feel like a plot armor sort of thing so I can understand it. The only reason I even thought about it was because of the scions changing the area and dynamis being used as a "go beyond your limits" sort of thing. Also that it was mentioned that us being sundered and having/using less aether also let use use dynamis but it did still feel like "just picked up this new thing but are still a master" kind of plot device too.

And no problem at all. While I like combat more than story in mmos, the primal and Ancient stuff is something that I do find really interesting. Hopefully more about dynamis will be explained later.

[KizuyaKatogami]

We're two different bunboys, trust me.

Anyways, I won't apologize. The problem is that you were being pretty dismissive with the accusation of hyperbole by throwing a single line into a vacuum while completely ignoring the surrounding elements which is, well, an inherently disingenuous thing to do. You clearly went far enough as to fight the final trial since you knew about her remark about Dynamis after the LB3, yet still seemed to act as if ignorant to the knowledge leading up to, during, and after that point. Short of having very selective attention, you seemed to have cherrypicked this line and only this line in order to downplay it's importance and therefore ridicule the theory that tackled it. Were you genuinely being passive-aggressive? I cannot, with authority, say one way or the other. That being said, the optics point towards "Yes", so you're going to get some snark back.


It was, I believe, stated to be generated from excess aether expenditure from the party or an empowerment gained through the Echo. I will concede the point that the writers have been pretty cagey about how LB is specifically referred to in the lore, but it's connection with aether is rather strong. Assuming I play devil's advocate and that this one single time it worked with dynamis (even though I think it shouldn't considering how they've stressed how fundamentally different aether and dynamis are, not to mention that the WoL's being able to channel dynamis on a dime is questionable at best), I'd still need to face the fact as to why all it took was the Scions and maybe some survivors that are aware of our work at the end of the universe was enough Dynamis to repel her assault, but no less than sixteen worlds were unable to have enough will to live to subvert it in the way we have. I understand that those worlds were torn and dealing with horrific events, but has Eorzea not been locked in borderline nonstop war at worst and political machinations and assassinations at best? If any form of turmoil somehow demeans the will to survive of an entire species, I can't think of a reason we were spared what all those worlds had to endure.

As you can tell, I'm a bit averse to dynamis and it's existence in the story. I feel like it was a plot device to explain how something so horrific and powerful could subvert masters of aether like the Ancients.

Excuse the tangent, this really took my goat. Haha.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. It annoys me as well lol.

[BrokentoothMarch]

I can agree with that. Dynamis being something we had never heard of til this point made it feel like a plot armor sort of thing so I can understand it. The only reason I even thought about it was because of the scions changing the area and dynamis being used as a "go beyond your limits" sort of thing. Also that it was mentioned that us being sundered and having/using less aether also let use use dynamis but it did still feel like "just picked up this new thing but are still a master" kind of plot device too.

And no problem at all. While I like combat more than story in mmos, the primal and Ancient stuff is something that I do find really interesting. Hopefully more about dynamis will be explained later.

If they introduced Dynamis in previous expansions, hinted it at it, or at least introduced it in a way that we could explore our WoL learning how to channel or identify it, I would be far more amical to the concept. I'm still not a fan, but it IS redeemable. However, in what I assume was a mad dash to tie up lots of loose ends in the story (which I'll admit is no small feat), it kind of feels like they wrote themselves into a corner by making the Ancients such bluntly superior users of Aether.

Therefore, Dynamis. If the later patches where we kick off the new story begin to explain Dynamis in more detail, it might make it easier to coexist with later. Though I don't think I'll ever like how it was used here.

n' I agree. I'm mostly here for the mechanics, but the game sold me on it's story. Especially come Shadowbringers. Which is why I'm pretty critical since we have proof the writers could do so much better.

[Miles064]

If they introduced Dynamis in previous expansions, hinted it at it, or at least introduced it in a way that we could explore our WoL learning how to channel or identify it, I would be far more amical to the concept. I'm still not a fan, but it IS redeemable. However, in what I assume was a mad dash to tie up lots of loose ends in the story (which I'll admit is no small feat), it kind of feels like they wrote themselves into a corner by making the Ancients such bluntly superior users of Aether.

Therefore, Dynamis. If the later patches where we kick off the new story begin to explain Dynamis in more detail, it might make it easier to coexist with later. Though I don't think I'll ever like how it was used here.

n' I agree. I'm mostly here for the mechanics, but the game sold me on it's story. Especially come Shadowbringers. Which is why I'm pretty critical since we have proof the writers could do so much better.

Here's hoping it works out. While I don't see us getting an anime style power reset, our power seems to be getting to crazy levels at this point just based on some of the stuff we have pulled of. The "dynamis" LB definetly being pretty high up there. At the same time endwalker felt pretty slow because it was trying to tie up so many things at once which caused some of it to feel a bit rushed.

That does make me wonder about dynamis and the shards though. The end times didnt do anything to the first so the dynamis wasn't causing issue for them. If we can just use dynamis now, assuming we can get enough of it, will it work on other shard? Still got some shards that are not gone to visit at this point right?

[Kozh]

Arguably? No. Their entire society was built around how to benefit the Star as a whole, rather than to descend into chaos. Furthermore, they debated what course of action to take and valued other perspectives as seen back in Shadowbringers.

Hermes and Venat, however, forced their bizarre and unhinged world views upon everybody else. In Venat's case, she simply wrote off the Ancients as a whole without informing them of the true threat lurking behind the scenes and as it turned out, Zodiark was the one which was holding the Final Days at bay, not Hydaelyn. So if Zodiark has been at full power...it's likely that the Final Days would never have returned.

Venat is little more than an abusive mother who insists that the harm inflicted upon her 'children' is a good thing, though as we now know she was perfectly capable of intervening directly and chose not to. Her faith in the people of the Source was not complete, either - she had an evacuation plan, though one that would have left the First and remaining worlds to be destroyed which is sinister in itself, given that they exist as a consequence of her own actions.

This is pretty much what I thought about venat. If anything, this expac made her "the end justify the means" way more than the Ascians. And I certainly hates how she gave up on her own people that easily.

Now, someone might say "but dynamis though, the Ancients can't do anything about it", but respectfully I have to disagree. The only reason why things escalated so bad they had no choice to summon zodiark was because they didn't know about meteion. Had hydaelyn approach the convocation (minus hermes perhaps) and told them about it, they may have gone with another solution.

I understand that part of why she made hydaelyn was because how some of the Ancients want to reclaim their paradise, but her reaction to it is kinda "oh, you just lost your family last week, move in already smh". The Ancients were grieving, not unlike the sundered people during final days, yet instead of bringing people together like how the scions did, she gave up on them.

If the WoL never found out about meteion, like how the Ancients were, I believe the sundered would fell into despair too. Perhaps they will even summon their own version of zodiark.

[RyuDragnier]

They do contradict lore though. In the past the devs themselves stated lb’s were aether based, it even says it in the EE. Now they’re apparently dynamis? It’s just a way for them to hand wave plot armor and plot devices lol

The EE is a collection of information written by individuals in-universe, meaning any knowledge they do not have is reflected in the EE. Dynamis, or should I say akasa, is something nobody had any concrete proof existed until now, as everything prior to this was just treated and assumed to being the work of aether.

Also, because we don't know the exact mixture of dynamis and aether, this is not a contradiction. You're creating a giant meteor out of aether, that does not change if dynamis is added to the equation. You used a ninjutsu to summon all these blades and fire them into your opponent, that does not change with dynamis added. You released an excess amount of elemental aether to heal and revive your allies, this does not change with dynamis. All dynamis serves as is the equivalent of a force acting as an extra push upon it, strengthening it or making it easier to perform it.

[BrokentoothMarch]

The EE is a collection of information written by individuals in-universe, meaning any knowledge they do not have is reflected in the EE. Dynamis, or should I say akasa, is something nobody had any concrete proof existed until now, as everything prior to this was just treated and assumed to being the work of aether.

Also, because we don't know the exact mixture of dynamis and aether, this is not a contradiction. You're creating a giant meteor out of aether, that does not change if dynamis is added to the equation. You used a ninjutsu to summon all these blades and fire them into your opponent, that does not change with dynamis added. You released an excess amount of elemental aether to heal and revive your allies, this does not change with dynamis. All dynamis serves as is the equivalent of a force acting as an extra push upon it, strengthening it or making it easier to perform it.

But while we know LBs are aether based, we know nothing as to whether dynamis is added nor how much dynamis can replace aether. Whether it can replace aether at all. Whether it can be all-dynamis or all-aether and the ramifications of either one. Essentially, your case is both speculative and is a show of someone trying to make excuses for a device that has little reason to exist and was presented poorly, adding to this confusion to begin with. I'm sure they'll go back and say "There's TOTALLY dynamis in LB now, trust", but we can't pretend like that doesn't add to the contrived nature.

Using your logic, I can say LB's also rely on the power provided by invisible extra-dimensional pink elephants with psychic abilities. You wouldn't be able to deny me, as I can state that the EE had no knowledge thereof, so clearly I have a case that cannot be discounted despite how outrageously ridiculous the notion may be. This is why I'm averse to the idea even with these trace avenues of justification because even they will fail to adequately represent something we should have had at least an inkling about long ago.

This was just poor writing, plain and simple. Given the great work we've received before, I'm disappointed we've resorted to the literary equivalent of "ive got a special gun that none of the other kids can protect against because its super omega sekrit and pourfull" on the playground.