Endwalker was "meh" (for reasons other than technical issues)

[Hix]

Space bunnies and moon spaceship is ripped straight from the plot of FFIV, except much less comical in FFIV

[Floortank]

100% agree with OP's first point.

50% agree with OP's second point. I feel that the pacing was bad, and made a lot of the "apocalypse" seem like it would wait around for an eternity for us to celebrate seven unbirthdays and a wedding before it finally happened. But I liked the buildup and characterization of Meteion, a lot. She surpasses Zeromus as a piece of writing, while being a character that was inspired by him, or deliberately made to resemble him in story and theme.

0% agree with OP's third point. The Garlean characters were extremely well written. They're not dumb, they've been victimized into believing something contrary to what you know. There's people like that all over the world in real life, too.

With respect to OP's conclusion: Pretty much agree. Pacing was awful. Had a lot of great moments, though. I'd rate it higher overall than any other expansion beside Shadowbringers, though. For writing, scene to scene, character to character, it leaves Heavensward in the dust. As much as I love Heavensward.

[Darthgummibear]

[COLOR="red"]

Huge Amounts of Pointless Time Sinks
Endwalker introduced a lot of mechanics that were completely pointless and did nothing to further the story but instead just dragged out the number of hours of "gameplay" in this expansion. These include the "guide this NPC around" quests, "stalk this NPC" quests, and "follow this NPC" quests. I realize that iterations of these mechanics have been present in quests in past expansions, but it felt like there were numerous of these quests in every single zone in Endwalker. Normally, you could just mount up and run over to the next spot, or even use the aetheryte. However, in Endwalker, you now have to stick with a slow NPC and walk/run across the map on foot as part of the MSQ. I think the best example of this is when you're body-swapped in Garlemald and, at the end of that quest, you literally have to crawl across part of the map before you finally trigger the cutscene. "Gameplay" like this was tedious, unnecessary, and not "fun" whatsoever (mainly because it was so easy that it was almost impossible to fail any of these quests). It didn't feel like I was playing a game, but rather doing a chore. I'm not sure why SE decided to suddenly add a bunch of crappy mechanics like this.

Endwalker also saw an increase of the Eulmore-type areas (e.g., the Garlean subway camp and Radz-at-Han) where you're annoyingly prevented from attuning to the aetheryte. This made a little bit of sense with the Garlean subway camp from a story perspective, but not Radz-at-Han, where you almost immediately come into the good graces of the folks in charge.

SE has also added new "achievements" like mounts and fashion pieces that effectively require you to do 4,000+ FATEs each. How about instead of creating rewards that incentivize people to do hundreds of hours of mind-numbingly boring content (which is what FATE grinding is), SE actually comes up with some fun, new content?

This here is what really stuck out as I played through the expansion. Even in comparison to previous expansions, there were way more stupid quest mechanics that served no other purpose than making things take as long as possible to inflate the play time...like that one awful quest in Labyrinthos that wanted you to help 8 people, but you ended up needing to talk to like 20 because most of the quest markers didn't count towards the quest with half the 8 being in really awkward to find locations. Seriously guys, we're going to play your game...we've already proven that...you don't have to go out of your way to have zero respect for our time.

[ScarletDevil]

With the Moon, I felt like Y'shtola just outright saying it despite the Loporits trying to build it up was hanging a lampshade on how obvious it was. It felt like the writers knew we'd figure it out almost immediately and used it to make a point about how out of touch the Loporits are.

My biggest issue with the story as a whole is that I don't feel like Zenos really adds anything. But then, I don't feel like he's really added anything to the game since the Royal Menagerie, so that was to be expected. The pacing was also a little shaky at a few points. But overall, I'm mostly satisfied with it.

I was honestly thinking the same about Zenos while playing. Like "ok where is he? He was so hyped in all promo materials that we saw!"

But...it is exactly as you said it. He doesntt add much and that is honestly the point of the story of his character. And self-admittedly so by him.
He craved only and ONLY a fight with a powerful opponent, that beings us as the strongest one on the star. And not any fight, but the hardest fight which means the closest to death or straight up on live and death.

Yes, that is all. That is all about him, Zenos, and his life and story. There is nothing more, nothing less and he describes exactly that in the dialogue before and after your duel.

I think it was a very nice touch as ending of the expansion and Endwalker. An epic fight to end it all with another powerful foe, that is but different than the all so mighty, sophisticated and poetical one we fought before....an epic fight that is/turns actually a simple brawl between 2 adventurers that burn inside for a great challenge against a strong opponent...something basic and intrinsic to an adventurer and fighter.

At least that is how I got it. A simple fight between two warriors fighting so intensely and hard that their lives are on the line...after a poetic fight against a deity-like entity that not only claims to be but can influence a major part of the universe and the natural flow of life/death with a major sophisticated history/story behind it all.

[KatsuraJun]

Perhaps on the part of the legatus, but what really irked me was (as I stated above) the fact that Alphinaud was too stupid to offer any sort of retort. He just clenches his fist and is unable to explain how the Garlean invasion of Eorzea is different from us providing supplies.

Alphinaud's lack of a retort made perfect sense, because the Legatus' statement poked a hole in Alphinaud's statement that "they simply wanted peace."

Let me explain from the beginning here.

The Legatus, and by extension, the more traditionalist aspects of Garlemald see the world as a zero-sum game where there will always be a loser and winner, or in other words: a subjugator and a slave. This is primarily colored by the history of the nation, and is why Quintus is so adamant on refusing assistance ー he does not want to be indebted precisely because that would be becoming the slave, and it's not only an ego thing that drives this decision; to become the slave would mean to be indebted to the magic wielding nations with Garlemald's people at their mercy once again, and to them, death would be a better alternative to the humiliation they already suffered once in the past. The reason he believes this is so, is because in his view, as long as there are differences between people, there will always be conflict. Remember Varis? Remember what his goal was? To literally physically unite all the peoples of the shards again into what they once were: a single master race, and usher in an age of lasting peace. That should form the basis of what Garlemald sees as the intrinsic flaw of the world: that people are different, and thus we fight. This is why Quintus can't trust your aid. He simply does not believe there aren't someone's strings attached to it.

Alphinaud, of course, argues that they're here for peacekeeping and disaster aid purposes. That all they truly ever wanted was peace between their peoples. This is where Quintus' statement comes in. No, he does not literally think that Eorzea should have just given up and surrendered to Garlemald. The reason he says that is a counter to Alphinaud's assertion that their highest priority was to create peace between Garlemald and Eorzea ー because, of course, the fastest way to ending the conflict is to submit as the slave and assimilate with Garlemald. But Eorzea didn't give up, because there are things more important than peace to us, like our values, cultures, morals, identity, etc. And for Garleans, the same is true: these are the very differences that would spawn wars, and to reiterate, the very reason he sees the world as a zero-sum game where conflict is inevitable, and why he rejects your aid. And Alphinaud is speechless because Quintus is right, on that front at least; peace is not our top priority, and there are things worth fighting and dying for that rank above peace. It's just that Alphinaud believes that differences can be resolved without conflict, whereas Quintus believes that it's all theatre because in the end, someone must win and someone must lose.

In the end, it's not words that show that Quintus' ideology is wrong, it's his fate: the final reward of Garlemald's destructive belief system is a lonely death, in the cold and freezing wastes as you cling to your pride with the barrel of a gun against your head. And the thing that proves the truth of Alphinaud's words is his actions ー that he never resorted to force or threats and genuinely wished for reconciliation with the Garlean population, which is why you have characters like Jullus.

[ScarletDevil]

I didn't care for the "Final Days" bit. Not one thing about it felt "Final Days"ish, no.

This reads like someone who had skipped dialogues and cutscenes.

1. The severity of the Final Days was shown in Thavnair plenty good even with its own dungeon. The severity of the situation on a small island country was terrible enough to make a conclusion of how terrible it would be on a global scale. You dont need half the planet on fire and demons to just then realize "oh shit, this is bad, we need to stop it". And..OH WAIT, we were actually showed already many times how bad the Final Days are.....in Shadowbringers, the previous expansion you know. And especially in its last dungeon - Amaurot. So we (the WoL and the Scions) have already seen and experienced how bad the Final Days can be by that point.

2. No real point? The NPC that has probably the most key point in the whole FF14 universe and its story. The NPC that is a being that can sense, convey and control the most abundant power in the universe that even the ancients couldn't is had "no real point"? It is the NPC that has affect all stories and characters in the game and their existences.

3. About the towers: Maybe because destroying 1 pillar of an almost destroyed seal is easier than destroying a full seal with full pillars directly? The point of the towers was to get aether to destroy the seal which they almost did. Zenos just did the final push. You really think that Zenos could have outputed as much damage (aether) as that gathered from like at least half the planet?

4. Zenos/Fandaniel not having a point: Well yeah, that is the whole point of their story and it explained it to use very well through their characters.
Zenos never cared about Fandaniel's plans and whether or not they work, he didnt care about the Final Days, he didnt care about Zodiark or Hydaelyn or the ancients. He just wanted a challenging fight to the death with a strong opponent, which was us, the WoL.
Fandaniel didn't care ever that much about winning (one distinction with Zenos here), or living. He actually wanted to die and said so himself many times. He himself said in few cutscenes that he is his worst enemy because of the things he lets happen to his plans. Examples are: the cutscene where he is outside the workshop of the alchemists in Thavnair that were creating the anti-tempering talismans and the cutscene where he helps you to get to Zenos while you are in the Garlean soldier body.

Fandaniel wanted to die and destroy everything before dying, as he saw deaths as the only solution to everything and that nothing else mattered.

From the Elpis arc we understand that Fandaniel (Amon) was just the inheritor/part of the soul of Hermes, which explains the whole part of Amon and his deathwish. Amon was just an extreme part of Hermes' views and thoughts...it was like that part of Hermes' soul (since it was sundered) that was all about nihilism and the death of humans.

[hydralus]

Alphinaud's lack of a retort made perfect sense, because the Legatus' statement poked a hole in Alphinaud's statement that "they simply wanted peace."

It absolutely did not. He went into a non-sequitur on his personal beliefs which had nothing to do with the actual history of their conquest or how they supposedly offered 'prosperity'. Alphinaud is supposed to be a master debater from a nation of scholars and getting shut up by such a stupid argument is absolute cringe storytelling. I don't think the writers even know how to write a smart character. You can't keep fanboying how smart and talented Alphinaud is and then keep having him fail so God damn always and resort to stupid anime schlock like 'the power of hope and friendship'.

[Dogempire]

It absolutely did not. He went into a non-sequitur on his personal beliefs which had nothing to do with the actual history of their conquest or how they supposedly offered 'prosperity'. Alphinaud is supposed to be a master debater from a nation of scholars and getting shut up by such a stupid argument is absolute cringe storytelling. I don't think the writers even know how to write a smart character. You can't keep fanboying how smart and talented Alphinaud is and then keep having him fail so God damn always and resort to stupid anime schlock like 'the power of hope and friendship'.

Maybe it's because no matter how intelligent you are, someone can pose a question that makes you question your beliefs? Maybe you can't come up with all the answers right on the spot no matter how intelligent you are if you meet the right person to question your motives?

To me it makes more sense that the question stumped him initially, only for him to come up with an answer later after thinking on it

You can be an intelligent person but still admit that you don't know all the answers, heck admitting you don't know all the answers is essential to developing a more rounded worldview

[ScarletDevil]

The pacing is all over the place .... Great...I don't care. ...

Well, I cared personally and I think it was one of hte best arcs of the expansion and the game. Besides the zones being one of the most beautiful ones in the game, the story there that they showed is not only super important because it reveals basically everything...every reason for everything that has happened, the beginning of everything and the reason of our initial plot (shards, Hydaelyn, Zodiark, current races and magic and etc.), but it is also a part that I have wanted to see more about since Shadowbringers revelead us the ancients. I wanted to know more about their life, how powerful they were, their culture and civilizations and more importantly: HOW did was such advanced civilization with creation magicks not able to survive the Final Days and thus: WTF are they and what caused them in the first place? Elpis arc explains all that.

It is not like we WANTED to kill Zodiark. WTF? It was FANDANIEL AND ZENOS that FREED (removed the seal) Zodiark that ruined the balance. Then Fandaniel merges with him to use him. We have no choice but to destroy Zodiark. Hydaelyn (and thus us) wanted to keep the balance to protect the planet.


Only Hermes created the terminator. And neither did he create the terminator side/transform of Meteon and her sisters. Their travel through the universe and those civilizations as well as death souls is what turned her/them into Nihilistic beings and thus also affected Hermes as he was waiting for the results. In the end, Hermes did not take a complete side but deicded that both are possible...the ultimate centrist

Hydaelyn gave them big chunk of the knowledge for the ship. And it was definitely 100% Allagan looking from the inside. Go rewatch the cutscenes from inside the ship. It is definitely Allagan design and also why we needed so many people to gather Allagan relics and materials.

They were definitely stunned by the bunnies. They learn lot of the things last expansion already. They learnt the truth about the ascians (the ancients) and Hydaelyn that was what shook their world view and they were shocked. Even at the beginning of this expansion, when Hydaelyn shows herself on our ship to talk with us, she says some words to you to let you know that you are doing everything out of your own free will and are not tempered by her...since she is a primal too and it is very plausible that you and the scions are the equivalent of primal thralls.

The story is like... executed.

I disagree here completely. It wasn't rushed. The expansion was longer than ShB exactly because it needed to finish the story. It is imo the best expansion so ever, even than ShB which to my taste is overhyped compared to most popular opinions (it has many highs but wasnt all highs as it is portrayed).
Endwalker just did it all from earlier expansion but better and with better quality.

[Krotoan]

Huge Amounts of Pointless Time Sinks
Endwalker introduced a lot of mechanics that were completely pointless and did nothing to further the story but instead just dragged out the number of hours of "gameplay" in this expansion. These include the "guide this NPC around" quests, "stalk this NPC" quests, and "follow this NPC" quests. I realize that iterations of these mechanics have been present in quests in past expansions, but it felt like there were numerous of these quests in every single zone in Endwalker. Normally, you could just mount up and run over to the next spot, or even use the aetheryte. However, in Endwalker, you now have to stick with a slow NPC and walk/run across the map on foot as part of the MSQ.

This was probably the only thing I disliked about the expansion. Yes it's very cute you found out a way for us to walk with NPCs and get lore tidbits SE... that's enough.. no.. enough.. STAHP I DON'T WANT ANOTHER ONE. There was literally one at every hub. It did make things drag and I'm used to doing every single side quest there is (and yes I did it this time too, making me do even MORE "lead the NPC" quests).

Every expansion they make up a new quest mechanic and then try to show it off as often as possible.. this one was these and hopefully they've gotten over it. I do not want more of these every patch.