Curious about something regarding Emet-Selch ***Endwalker spoilers***

[myahele]

But was Emet actually tempered? I mean we all assumed that in the shadowbringers until we learned in endwalker that the ascians actually added the tempering part to the "creation" magic they taught to beast tribes and other mortals that was used to summon primals. So going by that logic both Zodiark and Hydaelyn were brough into existance still with the old school way of creation and really shouldn't have tempered their creators.

Yes, he says so himself

[PMSJordan]

"Curious about something regarding Emet-Selch ***Endwalker spoilers***"

The way you phrased your title pretty much spoiled that Emet-Selch is in Endwalker...for the peeps who haven't progressed that far into it yet. :/

[Mirhd]

As I undestood it, Emet did know who we were during Shadowbringers, but he considered us an inferior version of ourselves due to being incomplete. He did ask to acompany us through the msq so he could be able to judge our worth.

This.

That was to judge the worth of mankind as it stood now—he stated as such later when he told us that he still found us wanting (us meaning mankind, not us meaning Azem’s sundered self). Not because he recognized us as a sundered part of Azem. He says at the end that we couldn’t be them.

Emet had (tied with Hythlodaeus; he was just a much better mage than Hyth, period) the strongest aetheric sight of all the ancients (part of the reason Azem and Hyth pushed for him to take the seat of Emet-Selch), and could perceive the unique colour of a persons' soul. Early on in ShB when he's spying on our activities during the quest The Oracle of Light, during his observation he says "then again... with a soul such as that...". Logically, there's only one person he could be speaking about, and given his strength of sight, there's zero way he could be mistaken. He knew we were the sundered Azem and was hopeful we could be convinced to side with the him and the other Ascians and tests us, but we're found wanting, yes. At that point it's more that he's unwilling to accept that we're his old friend. A "Azem could have done it, but since she/he clearly can't, this must not be Azem" sort of thing. Strikes me more as rationalizing his disappointment/grief.

I feel it also bears reminding that Emet had our soul stone prepared at some point before our final battle with him, per Hythlodaeus' shade; that quest is Etched in the Stars where we're picking up the soul stones of the lost Convocation members, the final of which is ours. Hyths' shade tells us straight out that even though the fourteenth seat (Azem) was considered disgraced due to us disagreeing with the whole Zodiark plan and defecting, Emet ("a friend", though again, logically it could be no other) had the stone prepared a long time ago, in secret. No, he couldn't accept that we were Azem before we best him; however it seemed he also really wanted to be wrong and had Hyth's shade leave those stones for us. The shade was more aware than the rest (no different from the real life Hyth, honestly), but still clearly influenced by Emet's hopes.

Also, uh... Emet is just Emet. He is indeed a grump-grump but clearly cares more for his friends/in general than he'd ever admit. Not sure why some people (not quoted here) think there's a weird disconnect between Elpis Emet, ShB Emet, and Endwalker finale Emet. One is just him before his myriad burdens, the other is him after shouldering them and going to extreme lengths to rectify what he saw as a great wrong, with the final being him after he remembered and accepted everything else. In Elpis he was actually horrified to hear that he ends up being the cause of great suffering and (understandably) vehemently denies it and us as a result. I mean... if someone told you that you would go on to cause devastation yet ultimately, despite your adherence to duty, give up your goals ("forsake my brethren", as he put it)... You'd likely react in the same way; you'd refuse to accept any of it.

Eh, this is a bit of a ramble as I've been low on sleep so I'm not sure how well I conveyed my thoughts... hopefully this was clear enough.

[Silly_Rabbit]

In ShB he still had hopes that he can unsunder the worlds and revive Amaurites and preserve thru Zodiark. Weather it was his own belief or result of Zodiarks tempering is hard to answer.

When we summon him in Ultima Tule he is definitely not tempered and have his memory's back so he understands that only way for Amaurites to carry on even tho sundered is to help WoL out. Otherwise even his soul won't have chance to be reborn.

When it comes to recognizing WoL as sundered Azem soul it just could be that it has been so long he don't rember color of Azem soul anymore but after seeing WoL standing out and being beacon of hope it slowly comes back to him.

[Sakurakouji]

Emet had (tied with Hythlodaeus; he was just a much better mage than Hyth, period) the strongest aetheric sight of all the ancients (part of the reason Azem and Hyth pushed for him to take the seat of Emet-Selch), and could perceive the unique colour of a persons' soul.

Hades wasn't unmatched in terms of soul sight. Hythlodaeus had the superior ability (explicitly stated in Tales from the Shadows), but he felt his friend was better suited for the seat of Emet-Selch because of his far, far superior ability with creation magic (as you mentioned). His take was something to the effect of: there's no point in having this sight if I don't have the power to act on it. Which is why he pushed Hades for it after he had rejected the seat for himself.

But yes, I do agree that Emet-Selch knew the Warrior of Light is Azem. It's just that, much like how he said he didn't consider the fragmented beings to be people, he didn't accept the Warrior of Light as Azem. There are other instances throughout Shadowbringers, like when he's talking about Amaurot to the protagonist, and he remarks, "Not that you would remember." If you choose to inquire about "remember" he just says never mind and moves on.

To me, his lashing out toward the end of Shadowbringers was because seeing the vision of Azem within the Warrior of Light was basically proof that you truly were the inheritor of his best friend's spirit. Except he's now on the opposite side of the fence, too far gone to rekindle anything. He had to fight to the death with his best friend, and it made him angry.

[Doc_Seraph]

I can't help but think of Dr. Emmett Brown when I see "Emet-Selch" Must have had some wicked 1.21 gigawatts of unlimited power kupo <3

[CaptainLagbeard]

Emet does still hate us, and says he wants nothing to do with us.

If anything, I imagine him saving us twice, once against Elidibus and second time helping us at Ultima Thule is just his ways of making sure the world goes on. Not letting Elidibus or Meteon destroy it.

[Sakurakouji]

Emet does still hate us, and says he wants nothing to do with us.

If anything, I imagine him saving us twice, once against Elidibus and second time helping us at Ultima Thule is just his ways of making sure the world goes on. Not letting Elidibus or Meteon destroy it.

I very much disagree with this take. All the excerpts and other interactions we have with Emet-Selch demonstrates that he tends to act grouchy, but feels another way. You're taking his words at face value, when he's always been pretty dishonest. In Elpis, he's shown to be very much a tsundere, acting bothered and peeved to be doing anything, but always pulling through anyway. He knows when Hythlodaeus is trying to manipulate him into doing things, he just plays along anyway. His disillusioned self through Shadowbringers pretends to be this unhinged lunatic, but it's to mask that he's actually lonely and tired from bearing the burden he has for as long as he has. In Ultima Thule, he offers the Warrior of Light incentives to keep traveling and exploring and acknowledges them as the successor to Azem, smiling while he does so. And despite saying that he wants nothing to do with us in response to Hythlodaeus saying he hopes we meet again in another life, the cutscene clearly shows Emet-Selch looking at the Warrior of Light and smiling again before returning to the aetherial sea. By all accounts, he acts the same way to Hythlodaeus and has only ever complained about Azem, but canon establishes the three of them as the best of friends.

[Adeacia]

I very much disagree with this take. All the excerpts and other interactions we have with Emet-Selch demonstrates that he tends to act grouchy, but feels another way. You're taking his words at face value, when he's always been pretty dishonest. In Elpis, he's shown to be very much a tsundere, acting bothered and peeved to be doing anything, but always pulling through anyway. He knows when Hythlodaeus is trying to manipulate him into doing things, he just plays along anyway. His disillusioned self through Shadowbringers pretends to be this unhinged lunatic, but it's to mask that he's actually lonely and tired from bearing the burden he has for as long as he has. In Ultima Thule, he offers the Warrior of Light incentives to keep traveling and exploring and acknowledges them as the successor to Azem, smiling while he does so. And despite saying that he wants nothing to do with us in response to Hythlodaeus saying he hopes we meet again in another life, the cutscene clearly shows Emet-Selch looking at the Warrior of Light and smiling again before returning to the aetherial sea. By all accounts, he acts the same way to Hythlodaeus and has only ever complained about Azem, but canon establishes the three of them as the best of friends.

That's how I view him. He acts like he doesn't care but actually does. I could believe even now he actually views us as a friend. Though you're never going to get him to admit it.

[QT_Melon]

"Curious about something regarding Emet-Selch ***Endwalker spoilers***"

The way you phrased your title pretty much spoiled that Emet-Selch is in Endwalker...for the peeps who haven't progressed that far into it yet. :/

No actually it hasn't It may have TALKED about Emet Selch in Endwalkers it doesn't imply per say he was in it. We're also talking about Zodiark and Hydaelyn here ...it's natural that he could have come up in mention. How, tho is for anyone playing the story was anyone's guess.

I recall there was narration in one of the trailers by Emet himself. So if you saw that trailer it was already "spoiled" that he had some kind of narration in Endwalker.