Concrete proof finally provided that the 2002 error has NOTHING is server side issue

[xenahawk]

So im not very computer smart but explain to me if i can play online games, serf the web and whatever without interuption but a 2002 error is my internet problem. Im not saying internet problems dont happen because they have but i have really good internet thats been really reliable so when there is an issue its pretty apparent. Not saying that internet problems cant cause it but shen i read that part there is no doubt that is the smallest percentage of the reason. In a nut shell in general they clearly should look at a new logging screen in general because we shouldnt have to relaunch and password all the time too.

[Puremallace]

So im not very computer smart but explain to me if i can play online games, serf the web and whatever without interuption but a 2002 error is my internet problem. Im not saying internet problems dont happen because they have but i have really good internet thats been really reliable so when there is an issue its pretty apparent. Not saying that internet problems cant cause it but shen i read that part there is no doubt that is the smallest percentage of the reason. In a nut shell in general they clearly should look at a new logging screen in general because we shouldnt have to relaunch and password all the time too.

This is the problem with blaming your customers for an internally created issue. At some point people with really nice setups were going to check this issue before raising hell with their ISP's. For some reason they have yet to explain why their client restarts your connection every 15 minutes. If there is an issue during this check then it auto crashes your client after trying literally 1 time. The onerous is then put on the user to not only be forced to stare at a 5,000+ queues for HOURS but also to immediately rush back in or lose your spot in line.

It is really bad customer service and an apology does not fix this. Also praying it goes away with time does not simply address the core issue here that can easily be fixed. Just change the client to try multiple times to reconnect before d'c.n after one attempt. If this guys analysis is wrong than say that but do not tell people it is your ISP's fault for an internal client/server side check that you are initiating for no good actual reason.

Why Yoshi P and Square Enix do not understand how this could be insanely upsetting is just beyond me?

[MiaShino]

i was going more for the conjecture theme tbh.

i wont deny there are problems - i don't think the intended message from the response regarding packet loss exacerbating issues with the lobby server was "blaming it all on macdonalds wifi - its not our fault at all".

Ohhh aye, that is not what I got from Yoshi P's posts either.

i can never know how imperfect the login process is because i'm not sitting on the lobby/game/whatever servers code. its apparent in the document that neither is the author. there are alot more moving parts than just "highfives" to the lobby - the googledoc had me until it started making baseless opinions in this regard using a couple fin packets to prove the client wants a refresh.

It appears to be issue that primarily exists on the server end though can manifest on our end too. Attempting figuring out how their servers actually operate is umm, well it is not worth it. Endlessly sniffing packets back during the WoW emulator days was some of the most grueling and tiresome work I have ever ever done. The best we could do was "approximate" their back end stuffs and it was hell.

my comment is more for the people buying into a conspiracy that SE is purposely sabotaging its own game while gaslighting its users.

Yup yup, I can agree with this. I see what is occurring more as general incompetence than grand conspiracy myself, which is staggeringly common in the field of system administration. Many apologies if I misunderstood your intent!

Reading Yoshi's post reads more as if he is suggesting to the user that they eliminate anything they can on their end so not to wait in more queues. It does not help that his language is JP and it doth not translate well to English.

[QT_Melon]

To add on about the post with Wireshark. Most deductions like this is done with a multitude of testing environments, not just one user who we at face value allow him to say "I know what I'm talking about due to my field" which is fine.

But it's NOT fine that we take that as the ONLY piece of evidence and having a thread that tells us "CONCRETE PROOF".

That's not how this should EVER work given we have people playing on different platforms, and not everyone was participating with this study and trying out different environmentals.

That said, I do believe more than one factor is at play, and not just someone's internet and it's possible SE may have overlooked other things.

But the way there's people hanging on to this as the proof is bothersome. It reminds me greatly when the mass of people saw some reddit post about people crashing zones through Gathering clusters (when it wasn't even the case) and were hacking due to the amount they were getting. They were literally harassing YouTubers from ONE person's post.

[Puremallace]

But the way there's people hanging on to this as the proof is bothersome. It reminds me greatly when the mass of people saw some reddit post about people crashing zones through Gathering clusters (when it wasn't even the case) and were hacking due to the amount they were getting. They were literally harassing YouTubers from ONE person's post.

Feel free to post your evidence disputing this. It is pretty damn easy to reproduce. Just log on at about prime time and get in a 5k queue and wait. One part of the evidence about the client reset every 15min only take a 500 person queue to verify as that is easily longer then 15 minutes.

The primary issue is the client tries once before closing. It should not be closing at all. Forcing people to stare a queue to immediately relogin is what is causing this rage. If people could just not pay attention and watch Netflix while waiting they would not complain but the disconnect and being forced to watch a slow moving queue is just enraging.

There is no defending that statement from SE and then not understanding why people are mad. I would be mad also. At this point during prime time I have given up even trying to login to the MMO because being forced to have the client open and watch a 5k queue countdown is just ridiculous.

[ChewieFlakes]

Wait, you mean the problems I get with FFXIV and NO OTHER GAME are actually not MY fault? But I was told (even though I have zero control over it and am not educated enough in computer science to prove otherwise) that the problem was from MY end??

Huh..

[QT_Melon]

Feel free to post your evidence disputing this. It is pretty damn easy to reproduce. Just log on at about prime time and get in a 5k queue and wait. One part of the evidence about the client reset every 15min only take a 500 person queue to verify as that is easily longer then 15 minutes.

The primary issue is the client tries once before closing. It should not be closing at all. Forcing people to stare a queue to immediately relogin is what is causing this rage. If people could just not pay attention and watch Netflix while waiting they would not complain but the disconnect and being forced to watch a slow moving queue is just enraging.

There is no defending that statement from SE and then not understanding why people are mad. I would be mad also. At this point during prime time I have given up even trying to login to the MMO because being forced to have the client open and watch a 5k queue countdown is just ridiculous.

My evidence during a 90 minute queue time was that I didn't disconnect or shut down. During peak time from CA. I had another queue that was 1 hr long and disconnected more than 4 times, I disconnected 8 times that day AFTER the fix.

What now? Do I put it on a google spreadsheet?

What about other platforms...

[Packetdancer]

The primary issue is the client tries once before closing. It should not be closing at all. Forcing people to stare a queue to immediately relogin is what is causing this rage. If people could just not pay attention and watch Netflix while waiting they would not complain but the disconnect and being forced to watch a slow moving queue is just enraging.

While I share the 2002 rage, I do suspect there's an actual rational reason behind it. My gut feeling is that our authentication is directly associated with a login session, and when the lobby server coughs up a hairball, that session dies. No session, no authentication. And the only way we can authenticate is to go back to the launcher and get a new token.

Obviously, there are ways around this; you could separate the two out, and then if the login session got nuked the authentication would still remain valid. But that does open up some security concerns (authentication can get way more complicated than it ought to...), and it would almost certainly require a not-small amount of rework on the login infrastructure. It would also likely not be a quick solution.

Mind you, this is all conjecture as I have neither the time nor inclination to hack apart FFXIV's authentication system. However, it would be in line with how authentication/login systems I have had to deal with in the past have sometimes handled things.

That said, even if I understand as an engineer why the client might need to close after a 2002 error, that understanding does nothing to lessen the frustration I feel when I hit a 2002 again and so end up back at the desktop again, fishing out my two-factor again to log in again...

*author begins gnawing on her keyboard in frustration*

[Shougun]

While I share the 2002 rage, I do suspect there's an actual rational reason behind it. My gut feeling is that our authentication is directly associated with a login session, and when the lobby server coughs up a hairball, that session dies. No session, no authentication. And the only way we can authenticate is to go back to the launcher and get a new token.

Obviously, there are ways around this; you could separate the two out, and then if the login session got nuked the authentication would still remain valid. But that does open up some security concerns (authentication can get way more complicated than it ought to...), and it would almost certainly require a not-small amount of rework on the login infrastructure. It would also likely not be a quick solution.

Mind you, this is all conjecture as I have neither the time nor inclination to hack apart FFXIV's authentication system. However, it would be in line with how authentication/login systems I have had to deal with in the past have sometimes handled things.

That said, even if I understand as an engineer why the client might need to close after a 2002 error, that understanding does nothing to lessen the frustration I feel when I hit a 2002 again and so end up back at the desktop again, fishing out my two-factor again to log in again...

*author begins gnawing on her keyboard in frustration*

I really think it's something around this idea ^.

I doubt Yoshida would be laughing to the bank purposefully over some change a var issue, but I also doubt that these 2002 are entirely my issue (given things like packet loss can be made more robust and not assume a few moments of miscommunication turns into an inferno of wasted time in line). It seems plausible to me that our end is not helping the matter, but I do think the launcher would be nice if it tried harder to save me in the water than vaguely wave towards the life vest. Yet I imagine it doesn't because of reasons like you said, there is some issue that it's not so simple and changing it poorly could make it all even worse. Which isn't me saying "do nothing", just that I think that's the situation.

[Serenitey]

Someone on reddit was nice enough to do a full technical analysis of the cause of the 2002 error and JUST LIKE everyone has been saying.

The server is resetting you client every 15 minutes and if it desyncs during this client reset it crashes the client.

This has nothing to do with your internet but an internal server side check done once that causes you client to crash.

Fix this now and stop blaming your consumers for internal coding issues.

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0...jk/mobilebasic

Source: reddit user u/pitiful-marzipan

Thank you for this evidence. Very interesting.