Concrete proof finally provided that the 2002 error has NOTHING is server side issue

[MiaShino]

It's not much an issue, EU used to actually be in the same data center as NA back when they were in Montreal with their previous provider before they went to Frankfurt.

This is still issue. See;
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-REPLY-HERE%21
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...NTT-Failure%29
Or simply browse the tech support section, you will see numerous 90006 related threads appearing especially during prime time. Me and my partner cannot play without a vpn anymore because of this.

Would help latency, but it's not so much about traffic as NTT has the infrastructure being a Tier 1 provider, they had been mostly fault-free since SE relocated to their Sacramento facility,

There have been many documented issues between Comcast/Charter i-bone and NTT interconnection. Many of these are result in oversaturated junction nodes loading into the NTT network.

it was said it takes 20 racks to run just one world. So having 500+ in one data center allows flexibility, saves on costs.

This is correct. It does save costs in short term.

If they use say the NTT Dallas, Texas hub, then if there was any problems routing to Sacramento, every player in those worlds would feel the faults. They would have to substantially outgrow the data center to consider the additional cost of a new location.

English is not the native language so I am having some trouble interpreting this, many apologies! There should never be routing for the player between regional datacenters. That is purpose of regional distribution. If Sacramento is experiencing issues then players connected to the Dallas data centers will not experience connectivity issues.

I cannot say for the certainty but it appears they have indeed long outgrown their Cali datacenter. I have no metrics though for this so who knows? Perhaps there is still room there for more racks or expansion of number of connections between Comcast and NTT.

[Kotisimus]

yes, but if it did not work AT ALL, then everyone would get 2002 and no one could log in.

And i repeat again, getting 2002 DOES NOT prevent u from logging in. It just disconnects u from the queue and u can jump back in at THE SAME position if u are fast enough to do so. So u are absolutely wrong when u state that "no one could log in".

please feel free to post the entire part where I said, once in, the 2002 error would prevent you from playing?

You just said

then everyone would get 2002 and no one could log in.

Which is incorrect.

did you even read and understand what I said?

Yes, hence the suggestion to stop making assumptions when u clearly got no idea.

but the programmers have a running joke about bugs and errors being caused by "unintended application" which means the user is doing something outside the regular recommended workflow.

Me and my wife are playing over the same internet provider using exactly the same router from the same apartment. She will have error 2002 while i wont and in 1 hour i will have it and she wont. So i got no idea what the SE's "intended application" of their software is, but my wife and me where clearly using it as intended prior to EW since we were never getting error 2002 back then and suddenly we are NOT using it as intended after EW launch. Your logic is just flawed.

[Packetdancer]

They know this but maybe this behavior mitigates another bug. Even if it is hard imaginable.

It's very easy for connections passing through NAT to end up silently dropping; the client side doesn't see that the connection is dead until it tries to send something, but the server side sees that the client has disconnected. It's due to how a number of home routers/modems will handle NAT.

If they saw an issue back in ARR with the connections from behind a NAT setup dropping, I can easily see adding a safety measure where it refreshes the connection every so often to make sure the connection doesn't silently go 'poof'. I'm not sure it's the approach I'd personally have used in a scenario like that, though FFXIV's network code may have made it the most appropriate one for whatever reason, but it's an approach to things like that... and one I've seen used by other software elsewhere. So if the game is doing that, it absolutely could be an attempt to fix that issue.

After all, the 2002 errors are frustrating, but it'd be even worse if your connection got dropped silently and you sat there thinking you were still in queue, only to get unexpectedly disconnected the next time the game tried to refresh the connection. Holding your spot in queue and manually disconnecting you to make the connection get refreshed strikes me as the equivalent of going after a particularly persistent mosquito with a howitzer, but it will (generally) get rid of the mosquito.

And even if that isn't the reasoning, it could still be addressing something else. it could be that it's a load-balancing scenario, where when it bounces you it has the potential to ask you to reconnect to a different login server instead, and that provides a method to shuffle people around to keep any one login server in a pool from being too overloaded, or whatever.

But if that's the situation, I'd argue that still falls into 'archaic netcode' as listed by Catwho, or a closely-adjacent area. And is probably something where reworking the entire login system (and making sure the change it doesn't re-introduce whatever original quirk prompted the scenario) would likely be a not-small undertaking.

[Bertpocalypse]

Masterminds at SE making desync algos to secretly sanitize session data from the login queue so their new game can look more popular - fooling the masses!

...they thought it was the perfect crime... BUT THEY NEVER SUSPECTED... WIRESHARK ANDY WITH HIS SIDEKICK BASIC FILTERING

[KihraJhin]

Someone on reddit was nice enough to do a full technical analysis of the cause of the 2002 error and JUST LIKE everyone has been saying.

The server is resetting you client every 15 minutes and if it desyncs during this client reset it crashes the client.

This has nothing to do with your internet but an internal server side check done once that causes you client to crash.

Fix this now and stop blaming your consumers for internal coding issues.

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0...jk/mobilebasic

Source: reddit user u/pitiful-marzipan

Imagine if we had a proper queue. Like once you queue your id gets put in the queue. and once it reached first place (or at least the group that designated to enter next) it should check if said client is actually connected and then boot you if it isnt. that way any amount of 2002 up to the point at least would not kick you.

[MiaShino]

Masterminds at SE making desync algos to secretly sanitize session data from the login queue so their new game can look more popular - fooling the masses!

...they thought it was the perfect crime... BUT THEY NEVER SUSPECTED... WIRESHARK ANDY WITH HIS SIDEKICK BASIC FILTERING

Oh my oh my! What a useful and constructive post detailing how the aforementioned google doc is completely and utterly incorrect.

[Shougun]

Oh hey, I just tested something myself. I interrupted my connection to simulate a packet loss, for 0.10 ms. Queue was at 46. Guess what? I got an Error 2002.

So, guess they weren't lying, huh? Guess packet loss does lead to 2002 when waiting on queue.

That's really sensitive though. There are so, so, many things that do adjust for that scenario. Why can't the login queue? .10ms loss, BACK OF THE LINE! lol.

Imo that is still their issue, if such a tiny loss causes everything to be thrown into disarray, though I assume there are other more complicated issues behind that smaller more simple issue.

It may still be a user causing some of this problem but honestly the program /should/ be more robust than that. Packet loss is pretty common in a variety of situations (not saying it's good, but this is just a reality for many situations). For example the game itself is, you can R0 and it'll be able to recover it doesn't just go "MINOR DISRUPTION, GET OUT OF HERE". Some games can even hold you in the game for a second incase your connection returns, not kicking you out during that period (I like New World can do this, though that game shouldn't be used as a shining example of code probably..... lol).

[Araxes]

Someone on reddit was nice enough to do a full technical analysis of the cause of the 2002 error and JUST LIKE everyone has been saying.

The server is resetting you client every 15 minutes and if it desyncs during this client reset it crashes the client.

This has nothing to do with your internet but an internal server side check done once that causes you client to crash.

Fix this now and stop blaming your consumers for internal coding issues.

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0...jk/mobilebasic

Source: reddit user u/pitiful-marzipan

It is the same thing with the 90k Errors.
They also try to blame us for that. I had them quite a lot and it was never my Connection cause every other Service was still online.
To negate their claims further: The mass reports of 90k Errors started with Endwalker. It would be kinda rediculous if the internet of a lot of people suddenly goes down the toilet because the Expansion of a MMO launched.

[Bertpocalypse]

Oh my oh my! What a useful and constructive post detailing how the aforementioned google doc is completely and utterly incorrect.

i was going more for the conjecture theme tbh.

i wont deny there are problems - i don't think the intended message from the response regarding packet loss exacerbating issues with the lobby server was "blaming it all on macdonalds wifi - its not our fault at all".

i can never know how imperfect the login process is because i'm not sitting on the lobby/game/whatever servers code. its apparent in the document that neither is the author. there are alot more moving parts than just "highfives" to the lobby - the googledoc had me until it started making baseless opinions in this regard using a couple fin packets to prove the client wants a refresh.

my comment is more for the people buying into a conspiracy that SE is purposely sabotaging its own game while gaslighting its users.

[Kes13a]

*snip*

lol, fine, you win.

I have little interest in arguing on the internet so I will go back to playing the game.

have a wonderful day and hope your issue is sorted soon. good luck