This is getting ridiculous. (Endwalker MSQ and post MSQ spoilers)

[Kaurhz]

Yes, it is a realistic expectation, because they literally made SAM/RDM Primal Weapons and released them during the 4.0 patch lifecycle. They did the same thing for DRK/AST in Heavensward. The problem people have is that GNB/DNC literally have only received ONE Primal weapon from previous content in the Extreme Shinryu --and thats it from Patch 5.2. The standard was already made by the game developers themselves -- if you cant continuously keep the same standards relative as you add more jobs, it leads to two questions:

1) Is the issue based upon team size/productivity? (A budget/team size issue)
2) Is this an issue with number of jobs vs. number of primals? (A long-term planning issue)

Seeing as Team 2 has put an effort (marginally) introducing a GNB/DNC weapon in 5.2 -- I would assume its A. We cant use the excuse of Covid/Endwalker/etc. for things that missing in 5.0.

Like I said RPR/SGE would require upwards of 36-38 new models in addition to the ones for the previous expansion - This number growing upwards of 46-48 if you include the 'future' crafted variant from the ShB extreme trials, next expansion in 7.x? Well that'd be upwards of the high-50s in terms of jobs, and all of these would need to be fairly new assets from the ground-up. Given jobs never existed in previous expansions. This is why I call it untenable and an unrealistic expectation because that implementation just grows more tiresome with each subsequent expansion, and these are resources that would ultimately be best suited elsewhere. When I mentioned standard it was in relation to them keeping a routine with regards to how and when they're released, something that isn't necessarily a trend as of yet. It's inconsistent. Check the pattern for yourself it's barely there when you make a basis for comparison with every other piece of content. They've released them very randomly, to be frank. We got Suzaku/Seiryu before Zurvan and Byakko. Comparatively Sophia and Sephirot were released way back in SB. The level of planning on what is released and when is essentially playing raffle. - That was my point with standards.

Finally, a point that I don't necessarily disagree with. Given the above I would just argue that if they have time to do it, or something - Then they shall. Otherwise sayonara. In other words developing primal weapons for old encounters where original models don't exist is bottom of the barrel with this list of priorities.

[Y2K21]

Like I said RPR/SGE would require upwards of 36-38 new models in addition to the ones for the previous expansion - This number growing upwards of 46-48 if you include the 'future' crafted variant from the ShB extreme trials, next expansion in 7.x? Well that'd be upwards of the high-50s in terms of jobs, and all of these would need to be fairly new assets from the ground-up.

And thats fair -- but the problem is that they already set themselves up with a standard on it. This can all be solved with that simple statement of that by someone in that team, and this entire point is now moot and understandable. The problem is: they havent, and have virutally be silent on the fact.

When I mentioned standard it was in relation to them keeping a routine with regards to how and when they're released, something that isn't necessarily a trend as of yet. It's inconsistent. Check the pattern for yourself it's barely there when you make a basis for comparison with every other piece of content. They've released them very randomly, to be frank. We got Suzaku/Seiryu before Zurvan and Byakko. Comparatively Sophia and Sephirot were released way back in SB. The level of planning on what is released and when is essentially playing raffle. - That was my point with standards.

See its funny, since none of these didnt even come out until patches 5.3/5.4/5.5 -- which is even funnier considering that GNB and DNC still didnt get weapons for them; but did get weapons for Shinryu in 5.2.

Again, consistency is key. You cant earnestly release one thing during the life of an expansion then just not do it for the others -- come on. Thats inexcusable, they should be receiving weapons designed for Primals during at least their own expansion.

Finally, a point that I don't necessarily disagree with. Given the above I would just argue that if they have time to do it, or something - Then they shall. Otherwise sayonara. In other words developing primal weapons for old encounters where original models don't exist is bottom of the barrel with this list of priorities.

The problem is lack of communication:

Heavensward: All new jobs get Primal weapons previously and withing their own expansion's timeframe
Stormblood: All new jobs get Primal weapons previously and within their own expansion's timeframe
Shadowbringers: All new jobs dont get previous Primal weapons and get only get one in 5.2 (disregarding Hades, since Hades is Shadowbringers content).

Thats a heavy and noticeable dip in quality without explanation. Sure, making 30+ different weapon models is a bit of a reach....but 8? Especially since they were being released during your own expansion meaning development was during the same time? Come on, you cannot defend that.

[Kaurhz]

snip.

I'm fairly sure they have made a statement regarding primal glamour weapons in the past, but this is not something I have the time to check back with every interview (Thus take it as heresay) - But my memory serves me in that it was stated a developer was doing it in their spare time. - Regardless though, I don't think they generally expect or feel the need to actually release a statement on primal weapons, given there are more interesting things to query about- But by all means pose the question when they next elect to do a Q/A.

Indeed, but as I have stated the order in which these are released are seemingly very random. Again, referring to the order with which they were released. - Almost as if there has been no other plan barring someone having spare time.

Sure - I don't necessarily disagree with the point in consistency. The whole reason we're having this discussion is because consistency is non-existence, and as I have mentioned on this thread once, if they cannot or couldn't reliably do this from the get-go then primal crafted weapons should never have existed in the first place. Seemingly, initially they wanted to make additional use out of the primal items aside from being a material for furniture or a barding.

They cannot communicate every little change or struggle and if I am to be quite frank they shouldn't need to communicate this. If enough people care about this then the question would repeatedly be submitted for a Q/A and thus would likely get answered. If it hasn't then people have more pressing matters they want to query.

Yes and your list perfectly highlights the issue behind it. if they wanted to continually develop primal weapons for past expansions then the model count would increase significantly. Number of classes is 2, number of trials per expansion with crafted weapons is around 5 (SB). Let's say they wanted to develop GNB/DNC weapons for SB this would require developing 10 weapon models for jobs that simply didn't exist, and as I've said with each subsequent expansion this becomes more difficult.

Want GNB/DNC to have HW weapons? Well that's an additional 7. That now becomes 14 weapons. For DNC/GNB across HW/SB that becomes 24. Now let's say you want to introduce ARR weapons into the mix? that's an additional 10 weapons models. Care to do the maths for EW weapons? - Now we can come into the conundrum of "Why not just make weapon models for the respective trials to be released through that expansion?" (e.g. give RPR/SGE weapons from the Sorrows of Werlyt + WoL trial) - Sure that's more tenable. But then people in this thread will only resort to the tactic of complaining that they aren't doing it for all the trials of the previous expansion, or crying that it's still a sloppy approach - Which sure I don't necessarily disagree but all that is being accomplished is people shifting the post of their complaint from all trials to sloppy.

I don't defend their absence, contrary to how my post is coming across. My defence/argument wrests on the simple fact people are just crying about it and chalking it up to the developers being money hungry (maybe they are) piggies, and lazy developers, despite having not the feintest clue of what they do, or do not do day to day. We can argue that 'dip' in quality has just been placed elsewhere in the expansion. - Once again we go back to the whole point of the scope of argument being incredibly narrow. You can argue dip in this scope. I can argue increase in another scope. For example, I could argue no other expansion has seen 2 sets of flashy relic tools (relic tools on top of the resplendent/blessed tools) - So yes I could reasonably make the defence, especially when the original argument is done on the basis of trying to highlight a decrease in content, or a half-baked attempt at calling the developers lazy.

tl;dr on my last point: I don't defend the absence of the weapons. I defend the difficulty of the undertaking to maintain this standard with each subsequent expansion, especially seeing as from HW right up until now we've seen a wider scope of content delivery in the game. In this sense I also argue against the point that we're seeing less and less content (that is when you manage to broaden your scope)

[Y2K21]

-snip-

Sorry, but your entire argument falls apart by me mentioning 4 things:

-Flamekissed Weapons (Patch 5.3)
-Moonlit Weapons (Patch 5.3)
-Demon Weapons (Patch 5.4)
-Enspirited Weapons (Patch 5.5)

All weapons released in Shadowbringers and developed after Ephemeral Weapons in Patch 5.2. You argue order matters, but it never did before and if the weapons are also being developed/released the same expansion as new job -- there isnt a reason for why they do one weapon, then never do anymore after. This wasnt an issue in SB where Samurai and Red Mage got Sepherot in 4.1 and Nidhogg in 4.4.

[Kaurhz]

Sorry, but your entire argument falls apart by me mentioning 4 things:

-Flamekissed Weapons (Patch 5.3)
-Moonlit Weapons (Patch 5.3)
-Demon Weapons (Patch 5.4)
-Enspirited Weapons (Patch 5.5)

All weapons released in Shadowbringers and developed after Ephemeral Weapons in Patch 5.2. You argue order matters, but it never did before and if the weapons are also being developed/released the same expansion as new job -- there isnt a reason for why they do one weapon, then never do anymore after. This wasnt an issue in SB where Samurai and Red Mage got Sepherot in 4.1 and Nidhogg in 4.4.

Except my argument in relation to the order is not that it matters for whether weapons are or aren't released for newer jobs, but rather the order with which they're released is indicative of something that doesn't necessarily have any formal standard for how and when they are released - Which was to highlight the point that it is at the bottom of their priorities and likely something that doesn't necessarily fit into their project management schedule. e.g. Why are we getting Byakko weapons after Suzaku and Tsukuyomi, despite the former being released before the latter, and why are Demonic weapons released 2 expansions after their initial release? As you've so conveniently put out.. Sephirot in 4.1, and Sophia in 4.5.. then an entire expansion worth between.. we see Zurvan?

As my follow-up comment specified.

Almost as if there has been no other plan barring someone having spare time.

My comment was meant to highlight how sporadically they are released. Not imply that the reason you aren't getting them because they predate the launch of the new jobs. My entire argument has always boiled down to them potentially not having enough time, and/or it just simply being a very low priority for them to develop new models for older trials when they are only considered a 'nice to have' - Sure they've historically done this in the past, arguable when those doing it potentially had more time to dedicate to it. With this in mind I don't really think there's anything valuable that can come out of this discussion

[Y2K21]

Except my argument in relation to the order is not that it matters for whether weapons are or aren't released for newer jobs, but rather the order with which they're released is indicative of something that doesn't necessarily have any formal standard for how and when they are released - Which was to highlight the point that it is at the bottom of their priorities and likely something that doesn't necessarily fit into their project management schedule.

Which is irrelevant to the case of three of the four I mention (Flamekissed, Moonlit, and Enspirited). The only one this works for is Zurvan, and even if you want to ask that they were mismanaged -- they have a year to make two need weapons for it, since it wasnt even released until 5.4 in the later half of Shadowbringers. However, for Suzaku - Tsukuyomi - Byakko: this doesnt matter at all, as all three were designed to be released in Shadowbringers.

My entire argument has always boiled down to them potentially not having enough time, and/or it just simply being a very low priority for them to develop new models for older trials when they are only considered a 'nice to have' - Sure they've historically done this in the past, arguable when those doing it potentially had more time to dedicate to it. With this in mind I don't really think there's anything valuable that can come out of this discussion

You do realize that all these weapons were released back in the expansion prior without the fancy particle effects -- and about 90% of the work is already finished before they even make these right?

Like Byakko's Katana and Byakko's Enspirited Katana are the same model. So you cannot say "time is some measure" here -- especially when the dev team has knowledge of what the next expac's jobs are going to be when they are developing weapons for them. Even if we want to mark it as low priority, it looks really bad for a company to do it once then just go "fuck it, thats it" until Hades as you release 3 other sets of weapons in the same expac. If its at the point where developing two new models for it on release is a strain, then thats very bad when the majority of the work is finished over a year and a half ago.

[Kaurhz]

Which is irrelevant to the case of three of the four I mention (Flamekissed, Moonlit, and Enspirited). The only one this works for is Zurvan, and even if you want to ask that they were mismanaged -- they have a year to make two need weapons for it, since it wasnt even released until 5.4 in the later half of Shadowbringers. However, for Suzaku - Tsukuyomi - Byakko: this doesnt matter at all, as all three were designed to be released in Shadowbringers.



You do realize that all these weapons were released back in the expansion prior without the fancy particle effects -- and about 90% of the work is already finished before they even make these right?

Like Byakko's Katana and Byakko's Enspirited Katana are the same model.

Yes they have a year and if we want to drill back to the original point these are likely all the way at the bottom of the barrel in terms of their priorities. Whether it takes several months or a year is just as irrelevant if they already have a tight schedule in the first place. The way I see it is.. Everything as part of the main content cycle > Primal weapons > creating new models for older primal weapons. There's no reason these should take precedent over anything else. Regardless of how dramatic some might get.

Obviously. This wasn't even my argument or point here. My argument is that for new classes that otherwise weren't around for the inception of when the original models were created then they would be required to build these ground up. In case that is a complex notion; example.. GNB/DNC were not classes available when Byakko (the trial) was developed and launched, ergo in this case they would need to make new models for them (SAM/RDM were classes at the time however). This starkly contrasts with weapons that were available then, which you've already conveniently stated "have 90% of the work done already". So in this regard and by your own admission the development overhead for existent classes at the time would be far lower than classes that weren't launched at the time (e.g. DNC/GNB for Byakko).

I'm well aware they have shared models from the original to the crafted counterpart. Once again my argument was that they don't have this luxury with classes that were released an expansion after the respective trial, and yes we can go back in circles with stating "Well SB did" - and as a response I can turn around and say they probably have other content they ought to prioritise over supporting this. People can be salty all they like, if the people or person developing these in the past no longer has the luxury of time to support this, then it's just perfectly logical they drop it to maintain or put support elsewhere into the game as unfortunate as it might be. I'd much rather they just pour that energy elsewhere like another continuation of crafter/gatherer relics which in the event of Dragonsung was their first jab at it.