Tank healing is to high

[Lyth]

...

It's a work in progress. Every expansion I think to myself, well, this is it, they can't extract any more challenge or responsibility out of the role. And every expansion, they seem to just find a way to disappoint us further.

I wouldn't say that the current era of 'auto-potion' tanking shifts the responsibility from one role to another. Healers have long been complaining about an overabundance of healing tools with nothing to actually use them on. You're merely doubling up roles on a task that never was all that difficult to begin with. There is no responsibility in keeping yourself alive as a tank, because there's no challenge to it. If you want strong, frequent use of active mitigation and sustain abilities, then failing to ration them out correctly should result in you dying, but here you have an overabundance of defensives. This has become a training wheels role to allow people to take a few vuln stacks and play with a simplified rotation. And it's unfortunate, because in games where tanks are adequately challenged, it's a really fun role to play.

[NeoDivinity]

And it's unfortunate, because in games where tanks are adequately challenged, it's a really fun role to play.

Sry to ask but may i have some reference to this, because from my experience the only have where tanking was actually fun at some point on endgame content for me was TERA. On casual content of course tanking is boring and you dont feel punished at all.

For Ultimate fights optmizing mitigation and keeping the cd rotation is a must. Take the 1st and 2nd phase on TEA for example, you miss a window you can die if your healer isnt babysitting you. I do consider Extremes an entry content for those casual players aiming for a new challenge but it does'nt go harder enough to be considered harcore content at all.
I whised for more interesting mechanics on tanks, as a main tank since ARR I hate that DPS is taken as comparison between the jobs in the role but i would take FF Tanks over WoW Tanks everyday for example, where the aggro generation still an unappealing mechanic, where spamming your highest aggro abilities and hoping that the healer isnt sleeping on the job is the main focus of the role.

That said ,the new tool gives the off tanks new oportunities to help the group, landing a little shield on a DPS in danger or maybe helping the MT with the mitigation if something goes bad. Does'nt change much but adds something new. As for healer responsability ffs, try enter any content as a healer and not heal and see what happens. The role need some attention but this thread is beyond redemption already.
On an expansion where we got 2 new Jobs, 2 complete reworks on existing jobs and the aim was to close this giant saga, i think the dev team is in good shape.

[Lyth]

Forgive my confusion, but I'm not really sure why you would pick something as your primary role if you didn't find it enjoyable to play on some level. I can't tell you why you ought to find tanking to be interesting or challenging. I've found tanking to be both at various points in time in this game's history as well as in Warcraft, although I think that Warcraft has a better track record overall when it comes to designing fights that are fun to tank simply because the game code isn't subject to the same level of movement jank that this game has inherited from 1.0. Personally, it's positioning and movement that sells fights to me more than pressing the defense button at the predetermined timestamp. Maybe I would find this element more interesting if it was random and you had to rely on boss tells.

This game does suffer from mitigation bloat, though, and this is especially a problem because pretty much all relevant tank damage happens in predetermined bursts and you have two tanks each with a massive pool of defensives. I understand that you may have some degree of satisfaction in snap bubbling a teammate to rescue them from a mistake, but if you wanted to play healer, well, there's already a role for that.

[J-Reyno]

If you want strong, frequent use of active mitigation and sustain abilities, then failing to ration them out correctly should result in you dying

I don't disagree. I've always said that I want boss damage to be consistently dangerous to suffer unmitigated and tanks should have to actually perform in order to stay alive. And if they fail, they get stomped. That's never going to happen. I could go on and on about what could be done for tanks and how it could be made into a more engaging role.

If this was a matter of choosing whether these tools should stay or if, instead, the entire role and all of the game's encounters adjusted to heighten the performance element of tanking? I'm sure more of us would agree.

But that's not really the alternative here and not what's being discussed in the OP. So as far as this topic goes, I can only say that I'm not interested in rejecting what little we have now just because it could be better. Especially when we know it won't be.

[IdowhatIwant]

This game does suffer from mitigation bloat, though, and this is especially a problem because pretty much all relevant tank damage happens in predetermined bursts and you have two tanks each with a massive pool of defensives. I understand that you may have some degree of satisfaction in snap bubbling a teammate to rescue them from a mistake, but if you wanted to play healer, well, there's already a role for that.

Tanks have never really been balanced well and have always had mitigation bloat. It has just grown. Remember when A1-8S were actually difficult. Tanks were tanking in dps stance back then...

[winsock]

I don't think there is a problem, it's the job of the tank to sustain themselves. My only real issue is with clemency. I think it should apply a HoT to the target rather than a burst so that healers are still responsible for saves.

[Ashua]

I don't think there is a problem, it's the job of the tank to sustain themselves. My only real issue is with clemency. I think it should apply a HoT to the target rather than a burst so that healers are still responsible for saves.

Actually, it is not. You are trying to define it to fit your narrative when for the last 9 years it hasn't been that. Its been the job of the healer to sustain you and for the tank to properly rotate defensives as necessary. Your job is to keep the monster's attention and maximize your DPS. I am not going to let SE off the hook with trying to allow the player base to redefine roles just so tanks can get the satisfaction of doing the healers' job as well.

[bulbs]

Or increase everyone else's self-healing too and essentially remove the healer role. Make it support DPS with rezzes and a couple additional party heals.

Honestly seems easier this point.

ill fight if you remove my sage. i am going from only tanks ever to healer . an i am having fun with my dark knight tank friend , i don't think he could play without healing honestly.

[bulbs]

You are reversing the roles essentially. Tanks are a tank for a reason. They are not healers. Tanks getting abilities that not only step on healers' toes but also allow them to help shield and heal allies is the absurdity icing to this cake. You cannot have it all. Your dps will be reduced to 25%-45% of a healer if you want to have this type of healing power. What should the healers do? Have you not seen the one healer trial runs on extreme going on right now and see how 1-2 minutes of the entire fight the scholar had to heal with the rest o the time spamming broil? Is this where we are going? Officially reducing the number of healers to 1 and eventually going to 1 tank and 1 healer for every static group because that is quickly becoming the meta for healers at least. I can see it even happening with the minimal gear.

This is one way to approache lowering the que times for dps . now for dungeons throw the whole healer out the window an make it 3 dps needed. /s

[winsock]

Actually, it is not. You are trying to define it to fit your narrative when for the last 9 years it hasn't been that. Its been the job of the healer to sustain you and for the tank to properly rotate defensives as necessary. Your job is to keep the monster's attention and maximize your DPS. I am not going to let SE off the hook with trying to allow the player base to redefine roles just so tanks can get the satisfaction of doing the healers' job as well.

cool story bro. we can agree to disagree but... um... how exactly do you plan on "not letting SE off the hook?"



My prediction: you'll feel sad and angry, SE won't even know you exist to any significant extent, tanks will continue to have self heals, and you'll continue to pay+play the game. You sure showed them.