Tank healing is to high

[J-Reyno]

These changes are really just there to make the role comfortable to beginner tanks who would otherwise be panicking and roaring at their healers through the screen the instant that their HP dropped below 70%. It's okay to be scared. That's what makes tanking fun.

Tanks only just NOW feel like an oversimplified melee dps to you? Because they have new tank tools that boost their self-sustain?

Well I guess people will always feel differently. To me, dropping to low health and getting "scared" is only fun when I have the agency to do something about it. Otherwise I just sit there and wait for mommy healer to kiss it and make it better.

[Absimiliard]

Where are these tanks? As a healer no tank I have played with can even come close to self sustaining unless its a paladin holding all their mp. A warrior tried but was easily killed when they couldnt recovered from a tank buster.

You must've been pretty unlucky so far. There are paladins and warriors healing themselves through wall to wall pulls right now, and that's without the former hoarding MP for Clemency. The amount of sustain these two jobs have is off the charts, but it is both mechanically and thematically appropriate for them to. Gunbreaker isn't too shabby at staying alive either, but it can't sustain as well as the aforementioned jobs. DRK, on the other hand, ... hoboy. Lots of damage, but their sustain somehow seems to have gotten even worse than it already was.

[OtakuSempai]

You guys really hate fun, don't you? Nothing literally wrong with tanks being able to sustain themselves in dungeons. It makes it fun and gives the healer the ability to DPS (I know, gods forbid that). DRK used to be able to do that, but we got that taken away from us. And now you want to take it away from the other tanks? Come on now. Let people have fun in their video game.

No, we love fun. It's that our role (healer) being reduced to spamming 1-1-1-1-1 because we are effectively not needed in a group setting is NOT fun.

I know its fun and flashy to be a one man army on your end, but this isn't exactly fun on the healer's end to be unneeded. It takes a broadening of perspective and the ability to think outside of your own immediate experience to understand, and I know that's a tall order.

[Absimiliard]

I know its fun and flashy to be a one man army on your end, but this isn't exactly fun on the healer's end to be unneeded. It takes a broadening of perspective and the ability to think outside of your own immediate experience to understand, and I know that's a tall order.

You uh... do know that keeping DPS alive was already the majority of a healer's job, right? Tanks have never really needed to be babysat excepting very specific circumstances. The DPS jobs will still very much need help, and so will the tanks once we get to content with over the top trash pulls and tankbusters that actually hurt.

[Lyth]

...

No, they seemed that way to me four years ago, as you would have been able to infer yourself had you read my post.

Tanking requires a certain amount of faith in your healers. Your job is to help them by correctly anticipating damage. Not to do their job for them. Even if you look at examples of lifesteal done well (i.e. Death Strike), there's still a timing element associated with reversing the damage taken. If you can heal yourself back up at will, it just encourages sloppy play for the both of you.

I've said this before, but the way things are going, tanks will eventually become so strong that the only damage on tanks that will matter is one-shot mechanics. And then, and only then, players will finally realize that tanking is irrelevant.

[Sqwall]

You uh... do know that keeping DPS alive was already the majority of a healer's job, right? Tanks have never really needed to be babysat excepting very specific circumstances. The DPS jobs will still very much need help, and so will the tanks once we get to content with over the top trash pulls and tankbusters that actually hurt.

After you get an extreme or savage on farm. Healing is....pretty boring. The scripted events are just not very "scary", after everyone knows it's coming. Seat of Sacrifice was an AMAZING extreme as the entire 2nd phase was random. I would love if they did more extremes savages like this. SoS was so damn good! I got my gwib on the 2nd clear....but I just ran it for fun anyway. Such a good extreme and the healing was a little more intense since the 2nd phase did have a randomness to it.

[J-Reyno]

No, they seemed that way to me four years ago, as you would have been able to infer yourself had you read my post.

I said "now" because that's the word you used, which read to me like your opinion degraded since HW and AR until now where you finally realized tanks are oversimplified melee dps. I'd quote it for you but your post is still there if you want to go back and read it yourself. Not what you meant, got it, whatever, moving on.

Anyway, tanks aren't doing the healers' job just by having some self-sustain, and I'm not convinced that it somehow encourages "sloppy" play for the tank to restore their own health at will when that's exactly what the healer does anyway. It just shifts a little bit of that responsibility from one role to another. I'm sure we'd all love more interesting sustain abilities that require timing and proper performance, but we know SE is not going to do that. And that's a criticism of SE's design choices which is a different topic.

I'm not interested in changing your mind, but this is my perspective. What I enjoy most about tanks in other games I've played is having strong, frequent-use active mitigation and sustain abilities, and having the greatest responsibility for keeping myself alive. This should be the tank's job and it's something I've always wanted for FFXIV's tank role.

[Ashua]

I said "now" because that's the word you used, which read to me like your opinion degraded since HW and AR until now where you finally realized tanks are oversimplified melee dps. I'd quote it for you but your post is still there if you want to go back and read it yourself. Not what you meant, got it, whatever, moving on.

Anyway, tanks aren't doing the healers' job just by having some self-sustain, and I'm not convinced that it somehow encourages "sloppy" play for the tank to restore their own health at will when that's exactly what the healer does anyway. It just shifts a little bit of that responsibility from one role to another. I'm sure we'd all love more interesting sustain abilities that require timing and proper performance, but we know SE is not going to do that. And that's a criticism of SE's design choices which is a different topic.

I'm not interested in changing your mind, but this is my perspective. What I enjoy most about tanks in other games I've played is having strong, frequent-use active mitigation and sustain abilities, and having the greatest responsibility for keeping myself alive. This should be the tank's job and it's something I've always wanted for FFXIV's tank role.

That is a fair response. I will still pine for that role to be more involved in the healer but we can agree to disagree.

[jetfire117]

No, we love fun. It's that our role (healer) being reduced to spamming 1-1-1-1-1 because we are effectively not needed in a group setting is NOT fun.

I know its fun and flashy to be a one man army on your end, but this isn't exactly fun on the healer's end to be unneeded. It takes a broadening of perspective and the ability to think outside of your own immediate experience to understand, and I know that's a tall order.

You should probably take your own advice.

[HolyReign]

I would think the Self-Healing would be great for the Healers, so they don't have to worry as much about the Tank getting floored, and then they can DPS instead.