Tank healing is to high

[Zordrage]

Damage is by and far the one thing that matters most in this game. Trading some of DRK's current damage for more mitigation/self-healing would in fact be a nerf in the eyes of the raiding community.

Yeah... thats why everyone is changing from DRk or outright avoid doing any serious content with it right ?

Majority of the Players don't care about the small Raiding comunity they just want to enjoy DRKs gameplay and thats realy bad atm mainly for 2 reasons Lack of selfsustain AND overall Boring Rotation.

No dmg is not the most important thing. Only Raid racers think that, they would scrafice half of the kits of all tanks and make them 100% unenjoyable and bad if it would mean they get 20% more damage.

Lets NOT balance the game arround that.

[ssunny2008]

Yeah... thats why everyone is changing from DRk or outright avoid doing any serious content with it right ?

Majority of the Players don't care about the small Raiding comunity they just want to enjoy DRKs gameplay and thats realy bad atm mainly for 2 reasons Lack of selfsustain AND overall Boring Rotation.

What is this... a crusade to give DRK more selfsustain?

I´ve seen your own thread and if those "healer quit because of DRK" has been really a thing, have you ever considered, that you´re just not a good DRK since you claimed that they´ve struggled to healed you 2 times and then quitted for whatever reason? DRK isn´t better or worse than other tanks are, it still relies on the player behind it to use the tools correctly. WAR is the only one which is non stop broken AND have the worst rotation this game offers. It´s still often played and guess why? Because it´s the easiest tank to play but more than half tanks out there still don´t know what they´re doing.

Tanks are broken, no matter about which tank we´re talking.

No dmg is not the most important thing. Only Raid racers think that, they would scrafice half of the kits of all tanks and make them 100% unenjoyable and bad if it would mean they get 20% more damage.

Lets NOT balance the game arround that.

It´s all about damage... even healers are expected to spam 1 in 90% of the whole fight, because it´s about damage. If a healer have to cast his spells out of big pulls, then something is going completely wrong. Even casting in bigpulls is not a thing with a good tank. In casual content it´s "either you´ve damage or you stuck here half an hour" and in savage it´s "either you´ve damage or you wipe at the enrage".
Then damage income is laughable as much as invuled tankbusters are.

- Weak damage = adds / boss lives longer = more mechanics to play, higher chance to fail or you hit the enrage
- Strong damage = everything is killed fast = less mechanics to play, maybe even skip the hardest, you won´t hit the enrage

Damage is definately the most important thing in this game. Tanks have more defs than they´ll ever need, healers more healing tools than they need and DPS utility for reasons only god knows. And btw no serious tank is going to stack tenacity "because it´s about more than damage" unless it´s on the BIS for ultimate because caused by caps. I would be happy if the roles would fit their roles actually and materia made for them. Instead we´ve godlike tanks, green 1 button dps and real dps classes without any self-sustain and homogenization at its best.

[Lyth]

What will invariably come out of this sort of suggestion is that DRK will end up with marginally more self-sustain than it does now, core problems like Living Dead and conditional mitigation effects will continue to go unaddressed, and PLD and WAR will be buffed to do more damage than DRK. Monkey's Paw is more likely to apply to you when you're not the dev team's favorite. I would much rather keep the small things that we still have.

[ssunny2008]

Scrolling through the pages and reading comments, especially those with a bunch of thumbsup, let me highly doubt that the most guys here are good tanks or have a clue about game-design.

Any tank is able to solo-content since SHB and it has become easier with Endwalker. YES even DRK is able to do that and i´m not only talking about dungeons. Take away those 5x stacks, instadeath mechanics without having 8 players alive or DPS checks and tanks would solo the current EX content easily. Even older savage content is managable given to the damage-income on tanks, which is mostly non-existend. A lot of times, with some bad players in savage dieing at every mechanic, i´ve been like "We should go in with 8 tanks and heal / shield each other." You wouldn´t have to care for AOE´s, they´re so rare that tanks are able to eat them for free and you can uptime at any shit, because of reasons. What are stacks?!

Healers have become nothing but 1 button spam with any good tank. When i tank as WAR, it goes even so far that i tell the heals "I´m gonna safe the DPS, don´t care about it."
It´s a major design issue in a trinity MMORPG. If anything, healers gonna heal in savage every 30s with their oGCD´s and that´s it. Laughable at best....

Either we need a bunch of more damage-income or tanks need to lose half of their defs, especially the new broken ones and BLN. When a good tank is able to eat any shit, to keep himself and the group somehow alive AND to have a higher DPS than the most "normal players" on DPS classes, then this game goes completely in the wrong direction. And on top you have to take care for nothing but 123 and that your tankstance is active.

All this nonsense made me even quit FF14 for a while with the SHB release. A bunch of you guys here should play something different to see what it means "to be a tank" and how a decent trinity works. Tanks in FF14 are braindead and overtuned af.

Playing through this expansion Omg I can’t tell you how many unnecessary deaths I’ve had and seen due to healers either just refusing to heal or just don’t know how to heal. I’m glad tanks can sustain themselves and others now. I’ve had some good tanks where the healer died and we killed the dungeon boss still. Yeah it might make the healer feel like crap but hey if you not gonna do your job then at least tanks can cover it to some extent.

It´s not "some extent", tanks are able to carry the shit out of the game. All what they miss is a rezz-option, otherwise they´re just broken and not depending on any other class in the whole group, meanwhile DPS can only hope to have good tanks / healer with them, since their own defs just suck. (RDM left out)
And seriously dieing to anything but a sick AOE is not the healers fault. The healer is more an "emergency-tool" for anyone who missplays something instead of being a healer who actually needs to heal. And if things go really nuts, please press LB3...

[ssunny2008]

you need to see more then just numbers...

if their number outputs are the same in Sustain and damage thats called BALANCE.

and read again DRK is not nerfed its balanced it has too much damage but selfsustain is trash it needs to get more selfsustain but it would end up OP if he keeps the crazy damage it does for a tank next to new buffed selfsustain.

It does NOT make the tanks same.. Because Gameplay wise how you get to those numbers is way different between the tanks all the tanks have different play style with some overlaps.

Think outside of the Box pls DRK is NOT a DPS its a TANK and it does its job as a TANK HORRIBLY

That not everything is about numbers is something i can agree with.
But that DRK should be a horrible tank is absolutely nonsense. Player-related issue because it has no 50k heals like WAR?

Just because you're not able to use your defs correctly, doesn't mean it has no self-sustain or it's worse than other tanks.

And there is definately no need that any tank has to be similar to each other, which they're since SHB. This is just sad and given by the stuff which is written down here, i know where those tankdumbdowns coming from.

[Zordrage]

Just because you're not able to use your defs correctly, doesn't mean it has no self-sustain or it's worse than other tanks.

but it IS worse then other tanks.

no matter how you use your def CDs on a DRK a healer literraly need to work twice as hard on a DRK then all the other tanks. As a TANK thats bad.

[ssunny2008]

but it IS worse then other tanks.

no matter how you use your def CDs on a DRK a healer literraly need to work twice as hard on a DRK then all the other tanks. As a TANK thats bad.

This is just not true. WAR is the only one which can run easily through dungeons and the most raids with tons of selfheal only and no damage loss. But even that needs to be used wisely instead of "on cd" and there is still content which hurts any tank a bit.
DRK on the other hand doesn´t have such major healing skills, but the biggest healing potency on 123, a one-time healing aoe and BLN. The barrier does a lot to assist healer or to rescue nearly dead partymembers.

All tanks are strong af... the major reason why WAR is superior in self-sustain is because the heal proccs on hit. And this is more broken than balanced.

[Visanis]

you need to see more then just numbers...

if their number outputs are the same in Sustain and damage thats called BALANCE.

and read again DRK is not nerfed its balanced it has too much damage but selfsustain is trash it needs to get more selfsustain but it would end up OP if he keeps the crazy damage it does for a tank next to new buffed selfsustain.

It does NOT make the tanks same.. Because Gameplay wise how you get to those numbers is way different between the tanks all the tanks have different play style with some overlaps.

Think outside of the Box pls DRK is NOT a DPS its a TANK and it does its job as a TANK HORRIBLY

You still didn't answer why they have to be the same though. Not all tanks need to be equal in damage and sustain. You don't achieve balance by everything being literally the same thing with a different coat of paint.

If we take your idea of "balance", gameplay wise if all tanks do the same thing, but one of them has to put in even more effort to achieve the same as the others, thus has the capability of being punished with lower damage output if they make a mistake, do you consider that balanced?

Also you're acting like DRK is doing thousands more damage rather than hundreds lmao.

[Zordrage]

You still didn't answer why they have to be the same though. Not all tanks need to be equal in damage and sustain. You don't achieve balance by everything being literally the same thing with a different coat of paint.

i did answered it and again just because numbers are the same the jobs aren't.
they would not be 100% same number wise just way closer to each other.
Gameplay is not just a coat of paint lol

[Danelo]

Damage is by and far the one thing that matters most in this game. Trading some of DRK's current damage for more mitigation/self-healing would in fact be a nerf in the eyes of the raiding community.

Fair. But why can’t SE add something to DRK to give it a viable heal that is untenable to use outside of “have to or die” scenarios - something akin to clemency that normally is not going to be part of the rotation and is an option at a cost of DPS? DRKs kit has been parted so why not a loosely related cousin of PLD in that of clemency?