Dear SquareEnix/Natsuko Ishikawa - About Zenos in Endwalker *MAJOR MSQ SPOILERS*!

[Elysidelphi]

To me personally, Elidibus's voice seemed to break in both Japanese and English, even though the translation in English is different.

When Zenos asked "Did you find...fulfillment?" with a short pause, and then that word "fulfillment", to me personally, it sounded like his voice slightly broke on the word "fulfillment" in both Japanese and English, and then it automatically reminded me of Elidibus's first death scene (in 5.3.). I did not intend at all to compare Elidibus and Zenos, that similarity just overwhelmed me the second I heard the tone of voice in which Zenos said that word. And then as I re-watched that scene, the sensation of similarity remained, in terms of their voices breaking. Since I'm training as a psychologist, we are actually required to study and focus on even tiny details, like how a voice sounds, how it goes high or low, how it breaks, hesitations/pauses in speech, facial expressions, body language, etc. So even without meaning to, I apply this type of analysis to fictional stories/characters as well.

[Knot_D]

Ugh I don't want my WoL keep get haunted by that guy... Let him stay decayed at that blue nipple world...

[Dewslam]

Zenos was boring and bad, literally nothing about him suggested there was ever any more depth to him. He's like a worse sephiroth. Sephiroth was a super soldier who found out his inhuman origins and it broke him. Zenos was a super soldier who found out his inhuman origins and went "lol, lmao." And in a game full of villains who have actual motivation for doing what they do, both fandanial and zenos felt like limp noodles to pack this storyline with. I'm surprised they didn't have a third guy to round out the the generic, boring, pair who was evil because he was craaaaazy.

Also introducing him with a 1v1 duty you have to lose in such a cheap way felt way too forced and absolutely ruined the character for me. I don't know anyone else, but when I fought him in that battle I was having no issue with his attacks and while he had ridiculous HP and defenses, I was winning pretty handily up until the game just says no, you lose. That kind of stuff is never fun.

[HyoMinPark]

To me personally, Elidibus's voice seemed to break in both Japanese and English, even though the translation in English is different.

When Zenos asked "Did you find...fulfillment?" with a short pause, and then that word "fulfillment", to me personally, it sounded like his voice slightly broke on the word "fulfillment" in both Japanese and English, and then it automatically reminded me of Elidibus's first death scene (in 5.3.). I did not intend at all to compare Elidibus and Zenos, that similarity just overwhelmed me the second I heard the tone of voice in which Zenos said that word. And then as I re-watched that scene, the sensation of similarity remained, in terms of their voices breaking. Since I'm training as a psychologist, we are actually required to study and focus on even tiny details, like how a voice sounds, how it goes high or low, how it breaks, hesitations/pauses in speech, facial expressions, body language, etc. So even without meaning to, I apply this type of analysis to fictional stories/characters as well.

The issue with this logic is that all of these things can be faked by high-functioning sociopaths as a form of manipulation. That said, I didn’t draw the same conclusions as you with a history in studying psychology myself. To me, Zenos is not nearly as deep as you are trying to give him credit for—merely a villain that has way overstayed his welcome, and needs to just be laid to rest. For good. That is the best “redemption” his character could have at this point.

Feel free to answer his backstory questions without actually bringing him back—though I find the sudden revelation of him dreaming of the Final Days all this time shoehorned in, personally. Especially since his Echo is artificial.

[Elysidelphi]

The issue with this logic is that all of these things can be faked by high-functioning sociopaths as a form of manipulation. That said, I didn’t draw the same conclusions as you with a history in studying psychology myself. To me, Zenos is not nearly as deep as you are trying to give him credit for—merely a villain that has way overstayed his welcome, and needs to just be laid to rest. For good. That is the best “redemption” his character could have at this point.

Feel free to answer his backstory questions without actually bringing him back—though I find the sudden revelation of him dreaming of the Final Days all this time shoehorned in, personally. Especially since his Echo is artificial.

Yes, these things can be faked by high-functioning sociopaths, I agree, but those type of people also tend to be very sociable/social butterflies, they come across as very friendly, and they do tend to care about first impressions, about how they are perceived by others. Zenos isn't at all like that. He doesn't care at all about how others perceive him, he isn't friendly or sociable. He doesn't come across as the type of person who'd worry/bother about putting up a fake mask in order to manipulate others. He already had a lot of power (political, physical, financial) since he was the prince, the heir of an empire, so he didn't bother with manipulation in that way. That's my opinion at least.

As for Zenos's depth. I believe Zenos has some amount of depth to him, but it's more subtle than in the case of other characters, and a lot of it comes, unfortunately, from those side stories about his past/childhood. So I think that a more complex, deep story could be built upon the subtle clues we already have. Personally, I think that all details can and do tell stories, from names, colours, numbers, to voices, tones of voices, gestures, facial expressions, etc. But not many people bother to notice them or piece them together like puzzle pieces. I think that subtle details are lost on many.

[Theox]

God I hope Zenos will never come back in the future. I honestly don't even understand why some people like him so much, when for me he was singlehandedly the reason why I didn't like stormblood: he is absolutely boring, has weak, not in the slightest interesting motivation, no character development - nothing. I also don't understand why did they feel the need to revive him in the first place and drag this cardboard till the endwalker. He's so forced into us its not even funny. When I got to fight him in the end I literally rolled my eyes in an annoyance. There's literally no emotional connection to this character and there shouldn't be, yet here he is again because oh but you wanted to fight him?? I guess?? Right guys??
Regarding what OP said about a "redemption arc"... Are we playing the same game here? Am I missing something? I thought writers made it clear Zenos doesn't care about anything but WoL 1v1'ing him. He cannot feel empathy or affection or love, doesn't understand why people are fighting for these things and he'll never will because he's not supposed to. Zenos on a redemption journey is like Hydaelyn releasing Zodiark - it doesn't make sense.

[Aneshda]

Why must we purge the World of all "Evil" Villains? Why we have to kill them all?

[Elysidelphi]

God I hope Zenos will never come back in the future. I honestly don't even understand why some people like him so much, when for me he was singlehandedly the reason why I didn't like stormblood: he is absolutely boring, has weak, not in the slightest interesting motivation, no character development - nothing. I also don't understand why did they feel the need to revive him in the first place and drag this cardboard till the endwalker. He's so forced into us its not even funny. When I got to fight him in the end I literally rolled my eyes in an annoyance. There's literally no emotional connection to this character and there shouldn't be, yet here he is again because oh but you wanted to fight him?? I guess?? Right guys??
Regarding what OP said about a "redemption arc"... Are we playing the same game here? Am I missing something? I thought writers made it clear Zenos doesn't care about anything but WoL 1v1'ing him. He cannot feel empathy or affection or love, doesn't understand why people are fighting for these things and he'll never will because he's not supposed to. Zenos on a redemption journey is like Hydaelyn releasing Zodiark - it doesn't make sense.

That part was never made clear, no. If the writers simply say "He cannot feel empathy or affection" that isn't a proper explanation, that is just a statement. The explanation would be why he can't feel that, backstory, details, reasons, etc. We are told/shown some things about Zenos, that he is this or that, or can do this or that, but we aren't given the reasons as to why. Some people are more than fine with just this much, they don't care to know more. Other people, like me, would like proper explanations and details.

[Aneshda]

God I hope Zenos will never come back in the future. I honestly don't even understand why some people like him so much, when for me he was singlehandedly the reason why I didn't like stormblood: he is absolutely boring, has weak, not in the slightest interesting motivation, no character development - nothing. I also don't understand why did they feel the need to revive him in the first place and drag this cardboard till the endwalker. He's so forced into us its not even funny. When I got to fight him in the end I literally rolled my eyes in an annoyance. There's literally no emotional connection to this character and there shouldn't be, yet here he is again because oh but you wanted to fight him?? I guess?? Right guys??
Regarding what OP said about a "redemption arc"... Are we playing the same game here? Am I missing something? I thought writers made it clear Zenos doesn't care about anything but WoL 1v1'ing him. He cannot feel empathy or affection or love, doesn't understand why people are fighting for these things and he'll never will because he's not supposed to. Zenos on a redemption journey is like Hydaelyn releasing Zodiark - it doesn't make sense.

If you never had Love in your Life, how could you know that there is more as just hate, boredom and other negative feelings. I thought that he would have liked it to go with us on Adventures. If you listen to him what he said in German and compare it to the English Version you will notice a big difference in all he said.

[RareItems]

How did Zenos lose a fist fight to a White or Black mage, especially the lalafell kind xD