Dear SquareEnix/Natsuko Ishikawa - About Zenos in Endwalker *MAJOR MSQ SPOILERS*!

[MilkieTea]

Not every villain is an Emet-Selch, nor should they be. Zenos was properly developed. He stated his reason(s) clearly time and time again. This is who he is. A redemption arc wouldn't really work with his character, and I like him as is anyway. Zenos wanted the ending he got.

This. Emet-Selch was a wonderful villain and our adventures on Elpis really put a lot into perspective. He had redeeming qualities.

Zenos has none - which is FINE. What he said to Jullus is essentially how I feel about him - why would him being "redeemable" make any difference? He's laid to ruin entire civilizations, he's committed mass genocide, he's personally killed possibly dozens of people. He wanted to fight, he wanted to die fighting. He got what he wanted. Let the man rest in peace, and if you personally want a redemption arc for him then view his bargain as that redemption: He was willing to save a universe to get a chance to die at the WoL's hand. There.

[HyoMinPark]

It's not an excuse, it's just the result of his life circumstances. While of course, you don't need to feel sympathetic with what he does, you at least can be understanding of what brought him to that point.

Except that the premise of this thread has been about bring back Zenos for a redemption arc. Put into that context, the statements can very easily be construed as apologist, and as a way to try and garner sympathy for a character that is completely unsympathetic. I think this goes far beyond posters wanting other to “understand” the character, and simply want others to see him as something more than what he is: one-dimensional and poorly written.

These are the same kind of arguments I see from hardcore fans of Sephiroth that fight tooth and nail to portray him as a poor, misunderstood character that could have redemption. Some characters are simply irredeemable, and that is fine. But it always seems to be a point of contention.

[MagiusNecros]

Gonna repost from the other topic. Topic is interesting.

As Zenos is effectively Shinryu now I don't think he is dead as his is now the ability of which Omega and GILGAMESH share which is the power to traverse the Dimensional Rift. Even at the edge of creation should he wish it he can easily escape.

IF he did die I'd imagine his body would have turned to Aether. It did not it simply lays there. Leaves it open for him to come back should the plot going forward demand it.

And regardless if he is irredeemable without him Eorzea and it's reflections would no longer exist as he literally carried the fight on his back. Good and Evil join forces to combat an existential threat.

And Zenos's determination is to seek the ultimate fight as he lives his life out of selfishness as he only truly "feels alive" through the "sparks" of battle. Which we did give him as his just reward on virtue of being too dangerous or because the WoL enjoys the fight itself and the Edge of Creation leaves the 2 able to duke it out without restraint or regard for others.

Even in victory we also fall over at about the same time. I'd say personally that the strength of Zenos and the WoL is still equal. Making them perfect rivals.

That said he is one of few who talks to "you" as an individual and not the "Hero" you are prophesized to be.

I don't think Zenos is done yet. But if he is he went out like a boss. Screw the haters.

[Miste]

Nah.....

Not every villain in a story needs a redemption arc. As much as I find Zenos kinda fun, and especially the ending lol he doesn't need redemption, nor would it actually suit his character to do so in my opinion. They've basically proven to you ever since he was introduced that he is single minded in his selfish pursuits, has zero empathy or care for anyone else, and he isn't going to change. Even people from Garlemald, where he was born and raised, can't sway him to have any emotion or empathy towards anything. He is shown pretty much to be a lost cause.

To be honest, FFXIV has done a lot of redemption stuff with many of its villains or characters who did a lot of wrongdoing or bad things etc or attempt to make you pity or feel sorry for them. It's a recurring theme to the point where it will get to be too much if they do it more in my opinion.

Like, you only have to play so long before you realize the recurring theme that "Everyone has their reasons why they do the things they do." Even if what they do is selfish, just plain morally wrong, or both. While the game also has plenty of story where they show that second chances should be given to people who have done morally bad things etc, it doesn't mean second chances would be given to everyone. Some people are capable of changing for the better and redeeming themselves, some people are not. I think Zenos falls into the latter.

[Miracle_Diva]

Except that the premise of this thread has been about bring back Zenos for a redemption arc. Put into that context, the statements can very easily be construed as apologist, and as a way to try and garner sympathy for a character that is completely unsympathetic. I think this goes far beyond posters wanting other to “understand” the character, and simply want others to see him as something more than what he is: one-dimensional and poorly written.

What's the actual problem with others wanting Zenos back? People want more of him, a lot of answers left unanswered.
Some are fine with Scions STILL being alive after everything. They just get get-out-of-jail-free card every single time there's danger to their lives. Isn't this bad writing too + simple fanservice? Zenos has his own fans too.
The difference is that They are the bad guys and did bad things so they don't deserve anything, but it's fine when it's WoL and Scions.

As long as death would mean something in this game, I would probably look at this differently. But it means nothing, people come from the dead all the time. Yet only one character gets all the hate.
We are not the ones deciding who lives and who goes in this game of course, so I wonder what lies ahead.

[Duskane]

he will become our Vegeta/Shadow the hedgehog

[Senn]

he will become our Vegeta/Shadow the hedgehog

I initially said I didn't care whether Zenos lives or dies, but the idea of him becoming our Vegeta is growing on me. I kinda want him to stick around now, at least for a while longer.

[iheartlove42]

Please let him stay dead. I loved him in Endwalker and it will cheapen his character if he comes back.

[Catwho]

It's not over for Zenos. What is the "Bargain" he struck? I'm sure it wasn't "Let me gorge on the mother crystal and I'll save your WoL". And the way he was just left there. It feels like he'll be back but a different person tbh.

Naw, that's it. The bargain was with Krile to know where we were. She explains in the post scene that she wasn't sure it was the right thing to do.

He dead.

[Aneshda]

100% this! I can relate to Zenos because my narcissistic parents neglected me, I grew up as a lonely only child with no love. I know what it's like to feel nothing. I know what it's like to be obsessed with that ONE thing that makes me happy (gaming). People don't understand why I love Zenos, it's because I see myself in him. People find Zenos boring and they find me boring too. Whenever I finally open up and mention my childhood, people don't know what to say. They find it awkward, they turn away. It's because empathy is too much effort, it's easier to hate and ignore. Understanding a damaged soul like Zenos is hard, it's easier to say he sucks.

Only someone with a real bad childhood can understand Zenos. My Childhood was so bad that I have a PTSD, Depressions, anxiety with Panik attacks. I have that since 25 years. Zenos was my light. Just knowing that he was lingering around somewhere, waiting for me, for a Fight, made my Days. Now I have a really hard time, cause I had to Kill him and that triggers my Depression. The first time he did it to hisself and Elidibus must have seen something in him, otherwise he would have not gave him a second chance.

I know most of you can't understand this since it is just a "Game" but we all spend a lot of time, years in this Game. We like some of those Foes, some we hate and some we love just for their crazyness. I didn't liked Zenos in the beginning, damn the first Time he beat me, I cursed him. But after Ala Mhigo and all the things he said, I fel in Love with that crazy one but to Kill him at the end, was bad. We "lost" our Scions, cause they wanted to move on without us, ungrateful Bastards. It gave me really the rest.