How much of this is Squares fault due to their terrible backend?

[Catwho]

I remember back when I played FFXI, I'd get disconnected all the time around 11PM at night. It occurred to me I heard a train whistle just before each disconnect.

Back then, I live in a very old house that was built not 10 feet from the old train tracks, which had a road paved next to them. The telephone pole and phone wiring were right next to the road. After I called my ISP with my revelation, they sent out an incredulous tech, who learned that the old phone wires buried underground had lost some of their shielding, and the old tracks were close enough that a train going a mile away caused *just* enough RF interference to cause a blip of packet loss on the DSL line ..... disconnecting me from the game. New shielding on the phone lines solved that problem.

XIV's connection system is less fragile - if you have a spot of lag you can often recover, at least in the game itself. Would be nice if the queue server was that robust.

[Hasrat]

Not unlikely some. We all know the spaghetti code. Could be something rooted deep in the game.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

Hi all. Network engineer here for a regional ISP. If your connectivity issues are fixed or improved with a VPN, be it with this game or any other, then the issue is with your Internet Service providers routing. Just like SE said it was. Call your ISP. Tell them to check/fix their routing tables.

[Krotoan]

If I VPN connection solves your problems then it's not SE's servers and likely not anything they can reprogram or "fix". Their game does not choose its route, the ISPs do and generally not through any pre-determined route just the "best" at the moment. It's something along the route. If it's not their equipment or software they won't do anything about it because they cannot. They can ask and make tickets with whomever handles their connections but unless something can be proven or verified faulty nothing will be done.

Traceroutes will help you identify exactly where the problem lies, but if it's past your own ISPs range there isn't a whole lot YOU can do.


As someone who works for an ISP there are constantly arguments between my company and those we provide service to and it's pretty equal between the times that it's our problem and we're wrong and it's NOT our problem and the customer is wrong. Especially if the problem is something like "oh we're noticing the connection is slower on wednesdays at 2 am if it's rainy". Nobody wants it to be their equipment and nobody wants to send people out to test something before the OTHER side verifies basics like.. say .. power.



BUT... troubleshooting rules again state your problem is the route, not the server since you swapped out the in betweens and it fixed your problem. The server itself does not care where your data has been, just that it gets all of it in a readable form and in the right order.

[Boldprint]

It's defiantly SE's fault, there connection kicks you off to easily and everyone blames your isp. Years ago the first time I have had problems, there tech support told me it was because i didn't have internet explorer install, can you believe that! not having ineternet explorer cause connection issues. The problem is when this game came out it was also in PS3, it had some crappy architecture that doesn't mesh well with PC and they still haven't gotten ride off, its easier just to blame your isp and suggest you pay more with a VPN.
There was a time you couldn't even que a dungeon with your chocobo out and it took a spot in the party. When flying first came people said there would never be flying in ARR because the code was based on PS3 and would never support it. I once had to compltly reinstall the game because i lost power and when my PC reset it corrupted the game files so it wouldn't even open. I love this game but SE are super greedy and it shows with how temperamental the game can be.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

If I VPN connection solves your problems then it's not SE's servers and likely not anything they can reprogram or "fix". Their game does not choose its route, the ISPs do and generally not through any pre-determined route just the "best" at the moment. It's something along the route. If it's not their equipment or software they won't do anything about it because they cannot. They can ask and make tickets with whomever handles their connections but unless something can be proven or verified faulty nothing will be done.

Traceroutes will help you identify exactly where the problem lies, but if it's past your own ISPs range there isn't a whole lot YOU can do.


As someone who works for an ISP there are constantly arguments between my company and those we provide service to and it's pretty equal between the times that it's our problem and we're wrong and it's NOT our problem and the customer is wrong. Especially if the problem is something like "oh we're noticing the connection is slower on wednesdays at 2 am if it's rainy". Nobody wants it to be their equipment and nobody wants to send people out to test something before the OTHER side verifies basics like.. say .. power.



BUT... troubleshooting rules again state your problem is the route, not the server since you swapped out the in betweens and it fixed your problem. The server itself does not care where your data has been, just that it gets all of it in a readable form and in the right order.

Sounds like you and I are in the same industry and you are spot on about the problem. Just have your customers email screenshots of their traceroutes and then forward them to your employers NOC. They can open a ticket with which every backbone provider is holding up the congestion. I had to do this personally many times when playing WoW over the years.

[Yahallo]

It's defiantly SE's fault, there connection kicks you off to easily and everyone blames your isp. Years ago the first time I have had problems, there tech support told me it was because i didn't have internet explorer install, can you believe that! not having ineternet explorer cause connection issues. The problem is when this game came out it was also in PS3, it had some crappy architecture that doesn't mesh well with PC and they still haven't gotten ride off, its easier just to blame your isp and suggest you pay more with a VPN.
There was a time you couldn't even que a dungeon with your chocobo out and it took a spot in the party. When flying first came people said there would never be flying in ARR because the code was based on PS3 and would never support it. I once had to compltly reinstall the game because i lost power and when my PC reset it corrupted the game files so it wouldn't even open. I love this game but SE are super greedy and it shows with how temperamental the game can be.

As someone who has traced their connection before, it very much could be an ISP problem. I've seen my ISP route my connection back and forth across the country repeatedly and SE has no control over that. It is worth noting that for some people it is not an ISP problem and for others it is an ISP problem, and there could be other problems on top of it.

[Catwho]

It's defiantly SE's fault, there connection kicks you off to easily and everyone blames your isp. Years ago the first time I have had problems, there tech support told me it was because i didn't have inter explorer install, can you believe that! not having ineternet explorer cause connection issues. The problem is when this game came out it was also in PS3, it had some crappy architecture that doesn't mesh well with PC and they still haven't gotten ride off, its easier just to blame your isp and suggest you pay more with a VPN.
There was a time you couldn't even que a dungeon with your chocobo out and it took a spot in the party. When flying first came people said there would never be flying in ARR because the code was based on PS3 and would never support it. I once had to compltly reinstall the game because i lost power and when my PC reset it corrupted the game files so it wouldn't even open. I love this game but SE are super greedy and it shows with how temperamental the game can be.

Let's uh..... let's parse this one at time here.

Years ago the first time I have had problems, there tech support told me it was because i didn't have inter explorer install, can you believe that! not having ineternet explorer cause connection issues.

They probably used COM extensions to embed IE in the launcher to load HTML files. Was pretty common for years, and if you were running Windows, IE should already be installed. COM shouldn't be used for any network level traffic, but it was definitely spaghetti code for years.

The problem is when this game came out it was also in PS3, it had some crappy architecture that doesn't mesh well with PC and they still haven't gotten ride off, its easier just to blame your isp and suggest you pay more with a VPN.

The core guts of 1.0 never made it to PS3, so you can't blame that system for the legacy code. The only thing PS3 is really at fault for is the small size of the old zones with their hard borders. PS3 support launched with 2.0 and died with 4.0.

There was a time you couldn't even que a dungeon with your chocobo out and it took a spot in the party.

That was an improvement to the game programming. It has nothing to do with net code. They had chocobos programmed to be a party member object. They had to rewrite them as a different object.

When flying first came people said there would never be flying in ARR because the code was based on PS3 and would never support it.

We figured they'd never bother to add flying because they would 1. need to add the hard flying borders around the zone and 2. replace some of the empty textures they never bothered to fill in over the horizon. It wasn't because of PS3 legacy code, it was because it was a lot of effort that we figured they would deem unnecessary at the time. The SE devs added it out of love for the players on their own, and even Yoshi P was shocked when they told him about it. (That's also how we got Gpose.)

I love this game but SE are super greedy and it shows with how temperamental the game can be.

Mobile games show that they're greedy. XIV team is just trying to tell a good story and make a nice world for us to live in.

[Krotoan]

Sounds like you and I are in the same industry and you are spot on about the problem. Just have your customers email screenshots of their traceroutes and then forward them to your employers NOC. They can open a ticket with which every backbone provider is holding up the congestion. I had to do this personally many times when playing WoW over the years.

I am the NOC. Honestly unless someone can PROVE the equipment is messed and it's our fault, our guys won't go and their supes don't want them to go and "waste" billed hours. If one customer alone sends in problems we will wait till we have a "pattern". It's a giant problem and it doesn't have to be.. but not only do you have to convince the ISP that something is broken beyond a shadow of a doubt, you have to be worth it.

Someone else mentioned a "bad node" that everyone in the EU is aware of... they really should all say something to whomever owns that thing.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

I am the NOC. Honestly unless someone can PROVE the equipment is messed and it's our fault, our guys won't go and their supes don't want them to go and "waste" billed hours. If one customer alone sends in problems we will wait till we have a "pattern". It's a giant problem and it doesn't have to be.. but not only do you have to convince the ISP that something is broken beyond a shadow of a doubt, you have to be worth it.

Someone else mentioned a "bad node" that everyone in the EU is aware of... they really should all say something to whomever owns that thing.

Okay cool so not just same industry but same job. Every company handles it differently I guess. We only cover about 3 states, a lot smaller than many so maybe its just a different culture but we get screenshots on a near daily basis forwarded to us from tier 1 that customers sent them. If we see the same latency on a hop, we immediately contact the provider of that network and open a ticket with them. Even just for one customer. Latency is latency.