Nietzsche (6.0 spoilers)

[PondHollow]

One of Nietzsche's memorable aphorisms is "To live is to suffer; to survive is to find meaning in it."

While the latter part is not used in Endwalker afaik, the former is stated several times.

Now, to be clear, that life is suffering is also a mainstay of Buddhist philosophy. And it is not a particularly uncommon sentiment in general. It could have come from anywhere.

Here is the related passage from the level 85 quest When All Hope Seems Lost.

Know this my children. There is more ugliness than beauty in this world.

To live is to suffer. To drink of calamity and drown in anguish. To toil and be tested, always and ever.

'Tis a perilous path you walk. Death lurks in the dark, and is the sole promise that awaits at journey's end.

You will tremble with terror. You will weep tears of anger and despair

...but do not avert your eyes. See your life for what it is.

Then you will see how the hardships make you strong. Every doubt reforged as scales for your armor. Every agony to temper your blade.

It has been a long time since I've actually read much philosophical material but to me this screams Nietzsche.

And I have only ever heard the word 'aphorisms' in the context of Nietzsche and now we have Allagan Tomestones of Aphorism.

I cannot help but wonder how much existentialist literature, or literature related to existentialism (I decline to strongly label Nietzsche as existentialist, and don't intend to debate the point - but pretty much any author related to Nietzsche is related to existentialism), shows its cards in Endwalker.

Are the tomestones a reference to Nietzsche too?

[vormela]

We don't have a Philosophy forum but if we did then I think we would have plenty to talk about. I think right now people aren't sure how far others are in the quests and have rushed through the MSQ. NG+ should be out with an update so we can go back and let it sink in.

Like you, I am kind of overwhelmed. I have a word document where I started just cut and pasting my entire chat log because there was so much to unpack. The themes of the game since 2.0 or earlier are existentialist in nature. I am not a philosopher but on some level understand that what they are informed by is philosophy about the self, free will, civilization, survival, intelligence/artificial intelligence, divinity... all in what has been an escapist medium. It is truly art. I am glad you are finding meaning in it.

One of my favorite monologues in the game besides the one you mentioned was probably around Level 86 in the 4th zone with Urianger...

Urianger and the Loporrits...

Urianger: Your works want not for repair. Yet there remaineth much for you to learn of men, and your own kin besides.

Singingway. Thy name bespeaketh more than the simple marriage of rhythm and rhyme. The songs of Etheirys are beyond counting, and span the length and breadth of emotion.

Maps are monuments to man's pioneering spirit and his devotion to charting the furthest reaches of our star. Many have devoted their lifetimes to exploratory pursuits. To venture unto the highest mountains and the deepest oceans, in search of unknown frontiers.

And thou, my friend. I... Hmm. I do not think we have met.

Puddingway: My...my name is Puddingway...

Urianger: Puddingway... Yes, indeed. A name of deep and abiding significance, I am sure, but one perhaps better communicated through delicious deeds than tasteless words. A judicious application of fae magicks at a later juncture may be appropriate...

And Livingway. 'Tis no easy feat to convey the significance of thy moniker.

Hmmm... When I was a bookish boy, a dear friend of mine was fond of peppering me with questions as I read─to my occasional annoyance. One day I posed to her a question of mine own─what doth it mean to live? After much contemplation, she proffered this answer. The anticipation of a half-read story's conclusion. The hope today's mistake may serve as tomorrow's lesson. The wish that a new acquaintance may one day call thee friend. She believed it to be all these moments and more.

Livingway: I...I want to understand, but...

Urianger: I, too, still labor to find mine own answer. 'Twould be my pleasure to assist you and yours in embarking on a journey of self-discovery and enlightenment.

[Sylveron_Zehantel]

Endwalker also introduced clearly Aristotelian terms in the MSQ, with dynamis and entelecheia. The latter being a word he directly invented himself. I think dynamis will be heard often in the stories to come.

[Cilia]

I've only finished the first act (Zodiark battle / moon trip, heading back to Sharlayan) but I have already spoiled myself because of the YouTube algorithm piquing my curiosity.

I'm refraining from extensive commentary until I've actually experienced it all, but as I understand a self-styled philosopher like me is going to have an absolute blast. Correctly called various criticisms of Amaurot, too.

[Theox]

"To live is to suffer" sounds more like a chrisitan dogma to me, rather than an existential idea (though I can see it that way). Seeing that the game's other prominent idea is forgiveness it's hard for me to not put 1+1 together. But then again I have no degree or extensive knowledge in philosophy so might be horribly wrong here.

[Zoliru]

Emet selch had the right point, what if the premise of the question was wrong.

The fact that Hermes needs to ask that question implies a need for an external answer, yet you are never going to find the reason for you needing such an answer, that is an answer that can only be found internally.

And at the end he continues being blind and lack self awareness when he feels so guilty for subjecting Meiteion to that and instead of trying to handle the situation chooses to stand by his old word of "I will accept the answer no matter what" completely ignoring the severity of situation and possible consequences, just so he can keep his word to meiteion.

Definitely made me hate Hermes, the root cause of the final days being his own existential issues and own personal need for rigid answers.

[Aitherea]

I was trying to look up Matsya's prayer and found out that the quote "to live is to suffer" actually was written by someone named Gordon Allport http://https://atkinsbookshelf.wordp...the-suffering/. Regardless, finding all this stuff on google definitely made me want to look more into the philosophy of it.