GNB QoL Change:

[Shinimas]

If the skill is to be called Double Down, why wouldn't it cost double?

You're actually serious, aren't you?

[Shurrikhan]

You're actually serious, aren't you?

I was literally responding to a quote indicating it was a misnomer so long as Gnashing Fang and its continuation didn't cost a total of 6 cartridges. The name (since the name originally attached to Double Down's animation has already been turned into our 90s resource-refresher) and skill were chosen in order to produce that effect.

The devs would not have switched things around and called it what they did unless they wanted a multi-cartridge spender.

From there, again,

The main question is whether being [that bit more] mindful of one's gauge is fun, which is likely to see mixed answers. Take Stormblood-period SAM's gauge-margining for example. More seemed to like it than not --though likewise a majority seemed willing to sacrifice part of that for Hagakure being less restricted.

Thereafter, it simply falls into the same matter of GCDs. For instance, if Double-Down had a combo GCD, then it'd simply replace two Burst Strikes.

[pastry777]

Maybe have Double Down cost a minimum of one cartridge but scale the damage up or down based on the amount of cartridges consumed perhaps?

[Aluja89]

I was literally responding to a quote indicating it was a misnomer so long as Gnashing Fang and its continuation didn't cost a total of 6 cartridges. The name (since the name originally attached to Double Down's animation has already been turned into our 90s resource-refresher) and skill were chosen in order to produce that effect.

The devs would not have switched things around and called it what they did unless they wanted a multi-cartridge spender.

From there, again,

Sounds a lot like they didn't test it and a lot less like something they wanted.

[Absurdity]

Sounds a lot like they didn't test it and a lot less like something they wanted.

I'm almost certain they didn't actually test any of the new additions in any environment more demanding than dungeon runs.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm not sure how anyone's having trouble with Double Down, though, be that in dungeons or in raid content. You know how many spenders to use between each minute's burst (cycling between full burst, full lull, and Bloodfest lull) and the Double Down only makes it a GCD easier to deplete all possible cartridges under a full burst.

By replacing two Burst Strike casts with one Double Down, you've accelerated burst by a GCD, making up for one of two added cartridges under and full burst. And yet we're acting like it's suddenly slowed and 'clunked-up' said burst?

[Undeadfire]

By replacing two Burst Strike casts with one Double Down, you've accelerated burst by a GCD, making up for one of two added cartridges under and full burst. And yet we're acting like it's suddenly slowed and 'clunked-up' said burst?

Also Double Down is a 80 potency gain over the 2 Burst Strikes + 2 Hypervelocity.

[Ixon]

I'm not sure how anyone's having trouble with Double Down, though, be that in dungeons or in raid content. You know how many spenders to use between each minute's burst (cycling between full burst, full lull, and Bloodfest lull) and the Double Down only makes it a GCD easier to deplete all possible cartridges under a full burst.

By replacing two Burst Strike casts with one Double Down, you've accelerated burst by a GCD, making up for one of two added cartridges under and full burst. And yet we're acting like it's suddenly slowed and 'clunked-up' said burst?

I think you are getting the wires crossed. Double Down, by itself, in an absolute vacuum, is fine. It's when you take into account that you are required to have three cartridges before your burst every minute due to the cost of Double Down that slows down the flow of the job that did not exist in ShB.

An example that I gave before that I will give again. In a dungeon, on the mob pack(s) before the boss, you are required to have at least 2-3 cartridges before the last mob dies, or you will either A. Be behind the buff windows of your group, or B. Burst without Double Down or Gnashing. Both suck. This means that while you are AoEing a mob pack, instead of doing what's damage optimal, which is using your gauge to help burn down the mobs faster either through Gnashing Fang or Fated Circle, you have to focus on building gauge to not miss out on the first burst in on the boss.

This is an EW exclusive issue, as in ShB you only required one cartridge to burst for Gnashing Fang at a minimum, which you could easily build in 3GCD's and be well within the burst window. This is not a dungeon exclusive thing either, you have to do this downshift in the add phases of both EX trials instead of being able to spend it like you would have been able to do in ShB. This is made even more apparent on fights with significant downtime, forcing you to hold gauge from a minute ago, in order to not disrupt your next burst.

You can argue that it's not that bad, the end result is that this change wasn't a quality of life upgrade, but a downgrade. You can argue it's a "skill issue", but I and others see it as an annoyance. Even doing something as simple as changing Double Down to a 1 cartridge cost would be a massive improvement that would not affect those who enjoy this current iteration.

As far as the No Mercy burst, the issue is NOT with Double Down, it's with Hypervelocity and the No Mercy duration. In ShB, you could end a No Mercy on a Burst Strike, no problem. Now though, if your last GCD is a Burst Strike, the following Hypervelocity falls out of the No Mercy window because there is not enough time for a follow on oGCD. Something easily fixed with a short 2sec increase.

[Shurrikhan]

I think you are getting the wires crossed.

Fair enough. It seemed before that some (not you, but others) were blaming Double Down for clunk outside of just dungeon play. That seemed unreasonable, if not backwards. I'm glad that wasn't typically the case.

Personally, I've not found EW GNB restrictive nor clunky in doing my daily Expert roulettes on my tank alt (as GNB is my favorite outside of DRK, and this char already has DRK at 90), since I just remember which lulls will have Bloodfest and which won't ("full lulls") and just aim to cap immediately when going into the latter, even if it means putting in one fewer cartridge (into a very short-lived pack) under No Mercy. But, I can see why it might annoy some.

That said, changing Double Down to cost 1 cartridge without also changing Bloodfest seems like it'd be equally problematic, as you'd otherwise be very pressed to get all your cartridge damage into that window (since doing so would then take one GCD longer). Personally, if Double Down were reduced to a single cartridge in cost, I'd sooner leave Bloodfest as it was before, at 2 cartridges to be gained, and slightly buff Burst Strike itself and the Gnashing Fang combo in compensation, rather than extend the No Mercy window by a further 2 seconds.

At present, even at next to no SkS, I have no issues snapshotting NM onto the final Hypervelocity under the recommended opener, though that may be due to low ping (I live near the server).

[Absurdity]

At present, even at next to no SkS, I have no issues snapshotting NM onto the final Hypervelocity under the recommended opener, though that may be due to low ping (I live near the server).

No idea how you manage to do that, even at 18ms ping I can't, but you're also not really supposed to get it in the first place. You basically have 3 different No Mercy windows, not including the opener, within the first 3 minutes of a fight.
NM at 1 minute has Hypervelocity fall outside of your buff.
NM at 2 minutes has it inside the buff because you have enough time left to end No Mercy on a Brutal Shell.
NM at 3 minutes not only has Hypervelocity fall outside of your buff but also has the whole "Gnashing Fang + Jugular Rip outside of NM" nonsense.


I'd honestly suggest something similar. Just bring us back to 2 cartridges max, make Bloodfest give us 2 again and make Double Down cost only 1. Then add the missing potency to both Gnashing Fang and Burst Strike.
It would essentially make our burst function like it did in ShB again, the only difference being Hypervelocity and that one Burst Strike gets replaced by Double Down.


It still wouldn't fix the issues I have with Hypervelocity, but it would make our buildup phase and our NM windows less rigid again.