MONK is to confusing / annoying of a class now

[Valence]

Cool, glad to hear it, that means people can stop making suggestions about how THEY think the Job should work and accept the way the game devs think it should work

The game devs, or you?

[Shurrikhan]

(why do we still have timers when we could just have stacks those days??)

Because a job that's thematically been about constant uptime shouldn't need to hop aboard the train for "let's have three times the duration needed to actually use the originally intended number of globals -- oh, and let's make sure SkS is even more terrible."

MNK is a crit addict job, which means getting too much speed means sacrificing crit

The only crit interactions are with weaponskills, which are on the GCD and are therefore just as affected by SkS as Crit. (More actually, as the rate of GCD decrease is greater than the rate of crit chance increase, iirc, since part of the value of Critical Hit goes instead to increasing the crit modifier.)

[IruruCece]

Cool, glad to hear it, that means people can stop making suggestions about how THEY think the Job should work and accept the way the game devs think it should work

I'm going to specifically make suggestions only to annoy you, and you alone, starting with six positionals restored to the job.

[Valence]

Because a job that's thematically been about constant uptime shouldn't need to hop aboard the train for "let's have three times the duration needed to actually use the originally intended number of globals -- oh, and let's make sure SkS is even more terrible."

If you're using three times the duration needed you're doing something wrong.

The benefit of stacks isn't to have "three times the duration needed" but to allow less rigid rotation theorycrafting, allow more rotational alternatives and more generally a good amount of freedom. Which in the case of RoF would be a godsent, because current RoF completely conflicts with the current rotational loop/design. Fortunately doing some dumb unoptimal realignments doesn't seem to hurt the damage much. But the main issue remains: by sticking to rigid timers you're by design restricting the amount of alternatives and different types of playstyles, which I something for example I appreciate on BLM where you'll find all kinds of different builds, some with speed, some with crit, some in between, depending your taste and preferences, all performing well.

The only crit interactions are with weaponskills, which are on the GCD and are therefore just as affected by SkS as Crit. (More actually, as the rate of GCD decrease is greater than the rate of crit chance increase, iirc, since part of the value of Critical Hit goes instead to increasing the crit modifier.)

Getting one or two more GCDs per 120min cycles will obviously net slightly more potential crits but you'll have to remember that those are also affected by crit rate. Crit rate, is also on a threshold/tiering system, which can't be compared to raw percentage values, and also affects crit damage. You're essentially trading more chances to crit on all your GCDs (but bootshines), harder crits as well, in exchange for a chance of more crit from a limited amount of additional GCDs.

[Shurrikhan]

If you're using three times the duration needed you're doing something wrong.

Yet that tremendous leniency in duration is literally the design of every stack system. Delirium needs ~4 seconds (2 GCDs + the [half-second plus twice one's ping] animation lock of Delirium itself and the final GCD as to fit in a third). It has a 15 second duration. Inner Release is identical. Bunshin needs 9 seconds and has a 30-second duration. Requiescat needs 12.5 seconds and has a 30-second duration. Sword Oath needs 7.5 seconds and has a duration of 30 seconds.

That is the precedent of what you're asking for.

Fortunately doing some dumb unoptimal realignments doesn't seem to hurt the damage much.

And those realignments, be they dumb or clever, are exactly what differs content from merely hitting a striking dummy and I much prefer that.

by sticking to rigid timers you're by design restricting the amount of alternatives and different types of playstyles

You realize stacks do exactly the same thing, just arguably worse, while further devaluing stat choice? The only redeeming grace for such would be that Twin Snakes at least would still be on a real-time duration.

for example I appreciate on BLM where you'll find all kinds of different builds, some with speed, some with crit, some in between, depending your taste and preferences, all performing well.

Those options exist because, like current Monk, there is no free (non-action-scaled) oGCD damage, only small amounts of purely time-supplied damage, and Ley Lines is NOT on a stack system. Move LL to stacks and SpS suddenly becomes that much less desirable. Just as RoF being on stacks would nuke the competitiveness of SkS on Monk.

Getting one or two more GCDs per 120min cycles will obviously net slightly more potential crits but you'll have to remember that those are also affected by crit rate. Crit rate, is also on a threshold/tiering system, which can't be compared to raw percentage values, and also affects crit damage. You're essentially trading more chances to crit on all your GCDs (but bootshines), harder crits as well, in exchange for a chance of more crit from a limited amount of additional GCDs.

SkS is also on a threshold/tiering system. Anything without infinite decimal points will have specific stat value tiers. No stat uses a true percentage curve.

What percentage of your rotational Chakra-contributing actions will SkS affect the rate of generation from? 100%.
What percentage of your rotational Chakra-contributing actions will Crit affect the rate of generation from? 83.3% in ST and 66.7% in AoE (reduced in practice due to Perfect Balance).

Whether SkS puts out higher damage overall per stat point spent or not is another issue entirely, but in a pure uptime fight, SkS will more greatly affect Chakra generation TFC damage over time than will Critical Hit.

[Valence]

Yet that tremendous leniency in duration is literally the design of every stack system. Delirium needs ~4 seconds (2 GCDs + the [half-second plus twice one's ping] animation lock of Delirium itself and the final GCD as to fit in a third). It has a 15 second duration. Inner Release is identical. Bunshin needs 9 seconds and has a 30-second duration. Requiescat needs 12.5 seconds and has a 30-second duration. Sword Oath needs 7.5 seconds and has a duration of 30 seconds.

That is the precedent of what you're asking for.

You're completely missing the point but okay. They could reduce the timer of those stacks it would not change the point. The point twofold:
- Leniency for latency players
- More viable alternatives for theorycrafting which is something monk could benefit from

And those realignments, be they dumb or clever, are exactly what differs content from merely hitting a striking dummy and I much prefer that.

You're also doing them on a dummy anyway.

You realize stacks do exactly the same thing, just arguably worse, while further devaluing stat choice? The only redeeming grace for such would be that Twin Snakes at least would still be on a real-time duration.

They don't. If they make an awkward loop obsolete, then good riddance. At worst you lose as many builds as you gain, at best you gain more than you lose. Problem on MNK is the weight of crit, therefore still making a looping 1.88s build improbable, but still keeping the current builds possible for the simple reason that crit/sks gear would still be valuable due to the crit value.

Those options exist because, like current Monk, there is no free (non-action-scaled) oGCD damage, only small amounts of purely time-supplied damage, and Ley Lines is NOT on a stack system. Move LL to stacks and SpS suddenly becomes that much less desirable. Just as RoF being on stacks would nuke the competitiveness of SkS on Monk.

That makes literally zero sense. LL be them on stacks or a timer, still multiply your speed by haste, which is demultiplied by speed no matter the duration system.

What percentage of your rotational Chakra-contributing actions will SkS affect the rate of generation from? 100%.
What percentage of your rotational Chakra-contributing actions will Crit affect the rate of generation from? 83.3% in ST and 66.7% in AoE (reduced in practice due to Perfect Balance).

That math makes no sense either. It's too simplistic and doesn't account for stat tiering, specific substats formulas behind each stat, brotherhood buffs (hugely biased toward crit and not sks), and the general rotations of the job. And it's not even taking into account the crit damage scaling.

So please, if you're to pull up actual math, at least be serious about it.

[Shurrikhan]

That math makes no sense either. It's too simplistic and doesn't account for stat tiering, specific substats formulas behind each stat, brotherhood buffs (hugely biased toward crit and not sks), and the general rotations of the job. And it's not even taking into account the crit damage scaling.

So please, if you're to pull up actual math, at least be serious about it.

Only weaponskills have an influence on Chakra generation.
Critical hit's damage bonus has no influence on Chakra generation.
Direct Hit has no influence on Chakra generation.
Brotherhood's damage buff does not influence Chakra generation; it merely guarantees Chakra generation, wasting the added Chakra generation of Critical Hit.
Adding Skill Speed will never adjust the rotation such that one has decreased Chakra generation; only at extremely high levels could it even allow for a Blitz to include or end with an Opo-opo form it otherwise would have had to pass over for Twin Snakes' refresh.

Crit influences the Chakra generation of all but Bootshine and Shadow of the Destroyer, thereby accounting for at most 5/6ths of your ST rotation, 83.3%, and 2/3s of your AoE rotation, 66.7%. Because you will attempt to add additional Opo-opo casts per minute through Perfect Balance and because Brotherhood wastes Crit's chakra contribution over its duration, it's actually less.

That one stat influences a larger portion of Chakra generation is not that complicated.

LL be them on stacks or a timer, still multiply your speed by haste, which is demultiplied by speed no matter the duration system.

On a duration, SpS increases the number of casts under Ley Lines, which in turn maintains the portion of casts affected by Ley Lines. On a stack system, SpS does not increase the number of casts under Ley Lines, which means a smaller total portion of your casts will be buffed by Ley Lines. It's not complicated.

[MousyEidolon]

Before i used to know the rotation like the back of my hand without even having to look which form I've opened up.

Gonna ignore all the debates and add that I was kinda sad about the positionals nerf. My entire FC is against me on this, but I genuinely enjoyed all the positionals. I had them memorized, and enjoyed moving around so much. I thought it was the quirk of the class, and now it's gone.

This is coming from a casual player though, so what do I know. ^^; The positionals were just more fun for me.

[Navnav]

The positionals were never hard for ANYONE, save maybe the odd older gamer. No, what they were was simply annoying for a lot of players, NOT difficult.

Still up to now, a lot of those players that liked the positionals can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that because players don't like something and complain about it, doesn't mean they can't do it, and definitely doesn't mean that the ones that enjoy it are superior gamers to the point we all suck because they enjoy it.

Anyways, the new monk is very well designed, but I would argue that personally I find it harder than the old monk with positionals and when they had to maintain greased lightning. Simply because to play it optimally (if that is your thing), you have to really focus on what abilities you should be lining up with PB before you hit them button. Don't seem to bad, but in combat it really is some dank 200iq business for me personally.

Just to point out, I would rather play it in easy mode than hurt my head over optimals. When I need lunar I just press PB and continue my rotation as normal lol. When I need solar, I just check for Leaden first, then hit PB and alt DK/BS. simple yet hella effective. On openers I follow the same one found in The Balance Discord. This keeps it suboptimal but easier to wrap my head around.

[Sqwall]

What on earth are you on about... Sometimes you talk as if you the almighty god of MNK gameplay. You are not and honestly, though one can appreciate your passion for the class, it is just a video game character. The way you go about slyly having digs at everyone is disguting mate. Really and truly you need to take a break from the forums, it isn't doing you any good.

Basically.

I’m having a blast with monk. Love that it has an actual thought provoking gameplay loop now vs. flank. Rear. Flank. Etc. Have to think for a second about leaden fist or twin snake, or demolish. All the while getting ready for my cooldowns and where to use or save them based on the fight. Delay phantom rush if riddle of fire is almost off cooldown.

Also perfect balance is great for getting back on track with your buffs/dot are close or did fall off. Don’t really care about parse or optimizing to the 9th degree. MNK is just fun now. For me that’s what it is all about. Fun.