MONK is to confusing / annoying of a class now

[Noraiga]

We need more mech, overall polish and rework, (revamped action <= personal hope ! ) and maybe one new button as a part of a new mech ?

Give us back GL animation also please : ) <= First of all: aesthetic : )

[Shurrikhan]

I´m not saying Blitz is bad at its core, but it´s overall a bad addition IMO.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

I've defended the hell out of GL over the years, but Blitz did not cost us GL. GL was already dead and gone.

Heck, even by the start of Shadowbringers, GL had no real effect. Unlike its ARR iteration, it no longer allowed us to be tuned at BLM+ levels of damage so long as we maintained it even in complex fights (see T9). It didn't compensate for its own cost as it did in HW, when TK was tuned higher relative to n GCDs. It wasn't usable as a resource, as it was in 4.3. It was merely vestigial.

Nor did Blitz cost us of our "Fists of X" stances; they were stillborn from the start and it would have taken significant reworks to the whole kit, around said Fists of X, to breathe life into them. (There are means of reviving those stances I'd have loved to explore, but... that's a story for another time.)

And, frankly, if I had to choose between GL even in its best iteration (4.3) and Blitz as a single concept to build upon, as much as I will forever champion 4.3 Monk... I'd have to say that Blitz is the better base concept.

And let's be clear: PB->Blitz plays nothing like Meikyo, Iaijutsu, Inner Release, Delirium, or Ninjutsu or whatever other 3-part burst phase thingamabob you may wish to mention... due to its context. Before actually trying it in depth, I was worried about the same, since I generally despise homogenization. I needn't had been worried.

I´m not talking about MNK´s toolkit, i´m talking about the skillfloor and skill-ceiling. Positionals always gave you the advantage to grow, to get a better DPS, to switch up your gameplay a little bit based on the given content. Blitz is blitz and without positionals, the only gain relies on the Demolish timer and how to play around it in Solarnadi-phases.

Nor did Blitz cost us our positionals. If positionals were seen as uniquely an issue for PB, PB would have --in effect-- gotten the Gluttony treatment, guaranteeing positionals over its 3 hits. And having another tool with/around which to optimize Demolish and Twin is... exactly what Monk has been about since ARR (though via ToD/Fracture back then, or later your TK timings in 4.3, before being dead in the water for 5.x because of SSS's tuning).

It's honestly weird how much downtime it still has even with Raijuu. Feel like I'd need a faster mudra CD to really fill things out, combined with perhaps the Raijuu stuff being oGCD instead of GCD.

Well, yeah; Raijuu only varies up 2 GCDs per minute after your opener, since you should still be using one mudra per minute each on Suiton and Hyosho. Raijuu doesn't even add APM, since Forked and Fleeting are both on the GCD.

[Shurrikhan]

3 charges at 30s each would allow us to line up buffs and give us that fulfillment of being able to reach Phantom within both a RoF and BH at some point which would feel great.

3 charges allows you an incredibly crowded opener with a delayed RoF that fits PR into raid (de)buffs, sure. But you've then 2 minutes til the next full raid window and only 90s til you're capped, forcing you towards the very same extra Solar as before if you want PR under full raid buffs. What's so wrong with just having a (30s CD, 2-charge) macrorotation of Either-Other, Double-Either; Other-Double, Either-Other; Double-Either, Other-Double; etc. Double (Phantom Rush) will still fall within full buffs two-thirds of the time.

It's worth noting here that Yoshida already mentioned that he didn't want Monk's burst to fall solely within raid windows and that Monk was balanced accordingly, no? I'm plenty happy with that identity; it's largely just a matter of then being overtuned in informal and low-man / light-party content. I merely want Blitz a bit more frequent (30s CD) because I enjoy its interactions and a 40s CD extends past both the maximum and theoretical durations of two Demolishes, around which we could otherwise flex PB use a bit more.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

I've taken the time to play around with MNK a bit more since EW released and structured a proper opener and I feel like negative reactions to MNK are really knee-jerk in nature, taking the time to work it out, it feels fine and isn't confusing/annoying at all. I can understand feeling frustrated at losing some oGCD actions and some positionals, but for me, the pros far outweigh the cons.

The levelling experience is more appealing since they moved chakras to a much lower level and its nice they brought back Steel Peak and Howling Fist. Thunderclap is superior to Shoulder Tackle in every way and feels far more response, so we can actually use our mobility tool for movement instead of damage. I can't speak for everyone, but I feel that the Blitz skills feel impactful and building them up is straightforward.

Overall, I'm still only level 82 so far, but from what I've seen, we don't get too much more other than upgrades to existing skills, so it feels complete as it is and I like it a lot, I look forward to playing more. I can see how its confusing if you are already at 80 and swap to MNK without reading up how it works, but once you do, its absolutely fine.

[ssunny2008]

We'll have to agree to disagree then.
I've defended the hell out of GL over the years, but Blitz did not cost us GL. GL was already dead and gone.

Blitz didn´t cost us GL so far but positionals for sure, which is a completely unneccessary change so far.

And as i said a year ago at the GL change. Have you ever considered, that SE tried to cater all the MNK mains? It´s not only the casuals who complained at each expansion about something. TK rotation, Anatman Opener, useless Fists, whatever it has been, ppl complained. We had tools to maintain GL in downtimes, we had/has a decent disengage-tool, which is unique so far. We do even made use out of 2 fists with GL4. The only issue which lasted has been a dumb cutszene in any 4th savage fight. This was even only an issue caused by no safespots, which was not even a big deal since PB was up.
But everywhere still complaints about MNK. On one hand the casuals "GL mimimi, being punished more than on other classes because i play bad mimimi, positionals i could ignore in any content but savage mimimi!" and on the other hand the mains "This is useless, that is useless, even those unique skills with a rare use are useless, and look at MNK´s dps."

Yes we just got some dumb skills to maintain GL and MNK stood the same otherwise. But that was indeed the biggest issue MNK had and it got fixed somehow. SE tried to cater all the MNK mains here for sure, but did the complaints stop? NO! Do they even stop yet? NO!
We lost everything and it got replaced with a new mechanic, which is nothing but a poor Mudra. SE added 3 burstskills as GCD´s together with some new and old animations to MNK meanwhile deleting everything else. The so called "MNK mains" obviously didn´t got catered enough, so SE gives af about them and caters casuals who don´t even care about MNK at all. Ppl which are sooooo glad, but don´t even touch it before finishing 10 other classes with 3 buttons, a little pet or just without any circumstances aka RDPS. It´s actually the same shit which happened to SMN this expansion. Does it looks cool? Yes... Is it a good gameplay? Hell no.

So many classes got fck´d over the years because of complaints over complaints from both sides and in the end everything has become super braindead to cater ppl who don´t give af and don´t even try. (Because it´s soooo important to not being punished for badplays, or that a carbuncle has a delay, or that a fairy has a metastance, that tanks have been able to do damage, or not... and now we´ve a worldwide AST star GG WP!)


EDIT: I´ve seen lots of SMN´s, dozens of BRD´s, RPR, SGE and other classes. But just about 3 times a MNK when 2/3 has been bad ones. Yeah yeah... the new MNK seems to be a gamechanger, when even less players care about it than before. I really don´t care about Blitz, but positionals needs to come back. And at this point, stop complaining about the last 10 DPS difference.

[Shurrikhan]

Blitz didn´t cost us GL so far but positionals for sure, which is a completely unneccessary change so far.

What part of Blitz, a skill that requires no more positioning than we had before to set up and even rewards you with a positional-less GCD, would possibly require the loss of positionals? There's no significant added cognitive load beyond deciding when to prep them, which is no different than RoF. Remembering whether you're doing the All-Same, All-Different, or Any Blitz is insignificant.

No. They are separate. The devs got rid of positionals because they wanted rid of positionals. Such was out of touch with their established job-users, obviously, but it had nothing to do with Blitz.

[meowmaou]

in the end everything has become super braindead to cater ppl who don´t give af and don´t even try.

I want the dude(s) balancing MNK to just totally fucking lose it one day and say "you know what, fuck you guys" and make everything hard as balls again.
The players they keep dumbing down old jobs for just zoom to whatever's new and shiny every expac, anyway.

[Gemina]

It can be, sure. But still having something to do during PB-downtime is better than not. Positionals could be drastically improved upon to minimize annoyance, but they did provide that "something", and quite well.

They could bring back all positionals, and just have PB remove the requirements while it is active. Though I would rather have the CD be 45s instead of your proposed 30s and instead add a little more potency unto blitz skills.

Either way, Perfect balance should be.... well, perfectly balanced.

[wereotter]

They could bring back all positionals, and just have PB remove the requirements while it is active. Though I would rather have the CD be 45s instead of your proposed 30s and instead add a little more potency unto blitz skills.

Either way, Perfect balance should be.... well, perfectly balanced.

PB going up to 45 seconds would make it impossible to ever plan around. Right now you can intentionally adjust your early blitzes to get phantom rush to align with the 120 second party buffs, but if the window between attacks goes up to 135 seconds, then it will never be something you can attempt to buff.

40 seconds is fine, but there should be some means of getting phantom rush off in the opener, which there is not.

From my perspective, though, the fixes I think it needs is masterful blitz being changed from a weaponskill to an ability so the execution of the blitz goes off the global cooldown and/or a slight increase to the disciplined fist buff. The window is pretty tight to get your moves off before that expires assuming you're using perfect balance as soon as it comes up.

Also minor thing, both monk and dragoon should get our damage increasing buff timer moved from a generic character buff to one shown on our job gauge. It's not that it's impossible to watch in the buff bars, but after the past 5 years of the important information being on the job gauge, it's awkward that just these two jobs now have to watch their primary buffs again a manner we haven't had to since Heavensward.

[IruruCece]

Also minor thing, both monk and dragoon should get our damage increasing buff timer moved from a generic character buff to one shown on our job gauge. It's not that it's impossible to watch in the buff bars, but after the past 5 years of the important information being on the job gauge, it's awkward that just these two jobs now have to watch their primary buffs again a manner we haven't had to since Heavensward.

The moment twin snakes gets on our job gauge, I think a certain group of people will realize that it's the new Greased Lightning and start calling for that to also become a passive.